EU & UN against capital punishment of terrorists? What's wrong with them? Watch

muffingg
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Recently Pakistan has started executing all the terrorists that were imprisoned and the EU and UN suddenly starts attacking Pakistan for this action. What about other countries that are executing far more people than Pakistan? What about Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, USA?

We are not talking about single murderers or thieves or any of such. We are talking about terrorists, people who have devoted their lives to kill others! Yes, Pakistan is not the brightest country in the world currently, but why are they not saying anything against the above mentioned countries and are only talking to Pakistan?

Seriously the UN and EU needs to sort themselves out.
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tengentoppa
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I'm against the death penalty both as a matter of principle and practicality but you're right that if the EU and the UN want a multilateral stop to capital punishment they should first target the most heinous offenders like Saudi Arabia.
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Clip
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
I'm against the death penalty both as a matter of principle and practicality but you're right that if the EU and the UN want a multilateral stop to capital punishment they should first target the most heinous offenders like Saudi Arabia.
Uh. no. It's China by a country mile.

China has more executions than the rest of the world put together. Even Amnesty think that China execute more people in a day than the US does in a year.
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MatureStudent36
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(Original post by Clip)
Uh. no. It's China by a country mile.

China has more executions than the rest of the world put together. Even Amnesty think that China execute more people in a day than the US does in a year.
Would that be because china has a third of the worlds population?
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muffingg
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Would that be because china has a third of the worlds population?
First of all, it's not a third, but a fifth. Secondly it's still not significantly more than India, yet India doesn't have any capital punishment
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cake face 96
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(Original post by muffingg)
First of all, it's not a third, but a fifth. Secondly it's still not significantly more than India, yet India doesn't have any capital punishment
China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia

India 3.5 43,355 Asia Southern Asia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional _homicide_rate

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...na/India/Crime

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_...country2=China

Does the death penalty play a part I wonder?
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JD8897
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Anyone who kills innocent kids or groups of people should just be killed, not worth spending £ on keeping them in prison, they are worthless to the world
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muffingg
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(Original post by cake face 96)
China 1.0 13,410 Asia Eastern Asia

India 3.5 43,355 Asia Southern Asia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional _homicide_rate

http://www.nationmaster.com/country-...na/India/Crime

http://www.numbeo.com/crime/compare_...country2=China

Does the death penalty play a part I wonder?
Where did crime rates and homicides come into this? We're talking about capital punishment.
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Studentus-anonymous
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(Original post by muffingg)
Recently Pakistan has started executing all the terrorists that were imprisoned and the EU and UN suddenly starts attacking Pakistan for this action. What about other countries that are executing far more people than Pakistan? What about Saudi Arabia, Iran, China, USA?

We are not talking about single murderers or thieves or any of such. We are talking about terrorists, people who have devoted their lives to kill others! Yes, Pakistan is not the brightest country in the world currently, but why are they not saying anything against the above mentioned countries and are only talking to Pakistan?

Seriously the UN and EU needs to sort themselves out.
The EU and UN aren't those countries, and their charters/agreements/treaties etc broadly forbid capital punishment or discourage it.

China and the US and the other countries you mention do in fact receive criticism for their use of capital punishment, domestically or broadly from the international community.
The problem is the practicalities and realities of international trade, relations and diplomacy mean that a country is either too big or too useful to outright punish just because of their own laws.

All in all there is actually little hypocrisy in the matter, since everyone with capital punishment is equally (if lacklustre) criticised.
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tengentoppa
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(Original post by Clip)
Uh. no. It's China by a country mile.

China has more executions than the rest of the world put together. Even Amnesty think that China execute more people in a day than the US does in a year.
But in China executions are not a form of public entertainment. And in China the death penalty the least heinous crime you can be executed for is drug trafficking. In Saudi Arabia you can be executed for adultery, apostasy, blasphemy and idolatry.
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tengentoppa
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(Original post by JD8897)
Anyone who kills innocent kids or groups of people should just be killed, not worth spending £ on keeping them in prison, they are worthless to the world
It's actually more expensive to execute someone than giving them a life sentence because of the bureaucracy involved.
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Observatory
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There is no such thing as a judicially imprisoned terrorist; such a person is a political hostage and liable to release at any time. An imprisoned terrorist is much more likely to be released without serving his sentence due to political considerations, threats, or bargaining than an innocent person is to be executed wrongfully as a terrorist. It has happened time after time, in Israel, in Iraq and Afghanistan, and right here in the UK. Executing a terrorist is not a punishment, nor a judicial action at all, but a military one.
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Clip
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
But in China executions are not a form of public entertainment. And in China the death penalty the least heinous crime you can be executed for is drug trafficking. In Saudi Arabia you can be executed for adultery, apostasy, blasphemy and idolatry.
When Saudi has under 100 per year, but China has over 1000, does it really matter? Up until recently, China openly had capital punishment for children - whether they still do or not is debatable.
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Everglow
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
It's actually more expensive to execute someone than giving them a life sentence because of the bureaucracy involved.
In the US it is. In countries like China and Saudi Arabia where the legal systems are slightly more... corrupt shall we say, the bureaucracy seen in American capital punishment is non-existent.

With that said, I have always been staunchly against the death penalty on many levels. The EU is wrong to target Pakistan seeing as Pakistan is outside of its jurisdiction, but the UN has every right to criticise and condemn them. Killing people to 'teach' others that killing is wong is the highest level of hypocrisy, in my opinion, regardless of the criminal. In my observation, people only tend to justify the death penalty on emotional grounds, based on resentment for the criminal. If you look at the moral ethics of capital punishment, putting emotive passions to one side, the death penalty is very hard to justify and I'm yet to be successfully convinced by any argument defending it. I believe the UN is doing a good thing by addressing the severe flaws and concerns of capital punishment worldwide.
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muffingg
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(Original post by Reluire)
In the US it is. In countries like China and Saudi Arabia where the legal systems are slightly more... corrupt shall we say, the bureaucracy seen in American capital punishment is non-existent.

With that said, I have always been staunchly against the death penalty on many levels. The EU is wrong to target Pakistan seeing as Pakistan is outside of its jurisdiction, but the UN has every right to criticise and condemn them. Killing people to 'teach' others that killing is wong is the highest level of hypocrisy, in my opinion, regardless of the criminal. In my observation, people only tend to justify the death penalty on emotional grounds, based on resentment for the criminal. If you look at the moral ethics of capital punishment, putting emotive passions to one side, the death penalty is very hard to justify and I'm yet to be successfully convinced by any argument defending it. I believe the UN is doing a good thing by addressing the severe flaws and concerns of capital punishment worldwide.
Do you not think that people who think their sole purpose in life is to kill others don't deserve to live? I understand how capital punishment may be the wrong thing for someone who commits manslaughter or a single murder, but someone who only kills people surely needs to be killed, no?

Also, does that mean you are against the killing of Bin Laden and would've preferred if he was just imprisoned?
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L i b
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(Original post by muffingg)
Also, does that mean you are against the killing of Bin Laden and would've preferred if he was just imprisoned?
Had Bin Laden been extrajudicially executed, I'd expect everyone would rightly condemn that. It would've been completely illegal, not to mention on another country's territory.

Bin Laden was killed in a military operation. He was not executed. While there was perhaps some motivation for the soldiers involved to gun him down, I have no means of proving that's what happened.
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viddy9
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They're wrong to condemn the death penalty in Pakistan but not in the United States, China, Saudi Arabia et al., but they're right to condemn the death penalty.
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StretfordEnd
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In designating someone else a terrorist you are assuming the moral superiority from your opponent and trying your best to crush the legitimacy of your opponent. Al-Qaeda, Hamas, IRA/PIRA, Tamil Tigers are all variously branded as liberators or terrorists depending on which side you ask.

Pakistan's actions don't reflect the narrative; that we're the goodies with progressive liberalism, democracy, the moral imperative and accountability whereas the other guys are baddies who are the opposite of all these things.

Which is a tad ironic given that the Western coalition against 'The war on terror' have on many occasions acted in a manner that is pretty consistent with what you'd expect from 'terrorists'.
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