The person who was left to do it for themselves has achieved more than the one being spoon fed it as they have ultimately been fed the answers and therefore, no it wouldn't be a true representation of their intelligence(Original post by TheRecorder)
So in a manner you do agree with the picture based upon another, less explicit, message the picture provides. From what you have just said there it is apparent that you do feel the system is floored because everyone within the system is different (with different motives and levels of drive). So, is someone who is spoon fed as intelligent as the person who isn't if they both achieve the same percentage in a standard test? Is the grade achieved from that test a true representation of each person's "intelligence"?
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- 01-01-2015 21:46
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- 01-01-2015 21:48
I don't know anyone like this I go to a grammar school so if you fail it's cos you don't try. But I think maybe the system could be better suited to handicapped people like those with autism who don't like putting themselves out there and get the help they need.(Original post by Chlorophile)
I'm not saying that everyone is incredibly gifted, I'm not saying that all people are special snowflakes. Of course there are people who genuinely don't care and will blame everyone but themselves for their own inadequacies. But on the other hand, there are also lots of people who genuinely want to try but just keep getting pushed back by a system that was only built to allow a very specific type of person to succeed. We need to be aiming for a system that allows everyone's talents to be realised, encouraged and allowed to develop rather than sticking to the status quo using a very exclusive group of people as the basis of resisting change.
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- 01-01-2015 21:50
And thus using academic accolades as a measure is a relatively redundant way to judge a person's intelligence although, it must be said, most of us have done it at some point.(Original post by _Charlotte15)
The person who was left to do it for themselves has achieved more than the one being spoon fed it as they have ultimately been fed the answers and therefore, no it wouldn't be a true representation of their intelligence
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- 01-01-2015 21:50
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Yeah defiantly, everyone is different and will have different capabilities, some may be artistically intelligent others statically so on.. I think people can be the same intelligence whatever their level of education -just because you may be 'spoon fed' by going to posh schools or establishments doesn't mean your going to be more intelligent.I do agree wih the picture but obviously there has to be some sort of education system which obviously doesn't benefit some people.
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- 01-01-2015 21:51
What's your point?(Original post by TheRecorder)
And thus using academic accolades as a measure is a relatively redundant way to judge a person's intelligence although, it must be said, most of us have done it at some point.
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- 01-01-2015 21:56
Haven't I made it clear? If not then my apologies.
My point is that a lot of people judge the intelligence of others by what they have achieved within the education system. Surely, if you concur with my previous comments about those being "spoon fed" and those who get to the grade by there own merit, using educational accolades to judge someone's intelligence is a floored system of measurement. -
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- 01-01-2015 21:58
Sorry, that's just rubbish. It's precisely this kind of right wing mentality that stops us from making progress. You don't have to have autism to not do well under the current system, you can function perfectly 'normally' and still struggle. Unless your talents are purely academic and directly applicable to one of the subjects available in school (and you're good at exam technique), you will not succeed. The above is not the definition of intelligence. You could be an incredibly talented physicist with an outstanding subject understanding and the ability to think creatively and scientifically, yet completely fail under the education system because you don't give the examiners the precise words that appear in the mark scheme. You could be an incredible dancer but be completely deprived of motivation because you didn't succeed in any academic subjects and your parents weren't wealthy enough or willing to pay for dance lessons. There's so much more to intelligence than being an exam machine and to be quite honest, to judge someone purely by their examination results is insulting.(Original post by KingCorneliusIII)
I don't know anyone like this I go to a grammar school so if you fail it's cos you don't try. But I think maybe the system could be better suited to handicapped people like those with autism who don't like putting themselves out there and get the help they need.
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- 01-01-2015 22:00
PRSOM(Original post by Chlorophile)
I think there's a massive amount of truth in this. Our education system is fundamentally flawed in so many ways - the basic model hasn't changed much in over a century. Anybody who denies this is living in a fantasy world. The fact of the matter is that until you leave Sixth Form, success in school is more or less about jumping through hoops. As someone who did very well in this system, I am very happy to admit that my exam results do not reveal an awful lot of information about how intelligent I am. I got full marks in English Literature without understanding the first thing about what I was writing about, I just paraphrased what other people in my class came up with and wrote it in a style that makes it sound like I know what I'm talking about. I place infinitely more merit in some of my other achievements in life than in my examination results.
Fortunately for me, I'm very good at jumping through these hoops and playing along with the game but there are many other people who are very intelligent but still look like they're failing because the system doesn't work for them. Not only is the system at the moment completely impersonal - it's a "one model fits all" system which is completely at odds with the fact that every child is unique and has their own learning style - but it also gives the interpretation that the only intelligence that matters is a strong academic ability (increasingly restricted to STEM subjects). Vocational and creative talents - the latter which is particularly important and lacking in a lot of people - are completely and utterly ignored. Creativity is pretty much actively discouraged in our education system which, given that the great problems of the future will only be solved through creativity, innovative and cross-subject thinking, is an absolutely massive problem.
I've noticed something which I think could partially explain the OP's viewpoint. If you do very well in a given system, you are naturally inclined to think that it's a good judger of intelligence. I've been a fierce critic of the British educational system for a long time but after I got my AS results, I went through a (fortunately brief) phase of suddenly becoming more supportive of it. People have to stop this assumption that what served them well is necessarily the best system for society as a whole. People are hugely diverse. If you start acting as if everyone should be able to conform to one system of education, you are going to do a massive number of people (and ultimately society) a huge injustice. -
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- 01-01-2015 22:01
And would you agree with me by saying that this seems to be the way a lot of people judge other people's intelligence in today's society?(Original post by Chlorophile)
There's so much more to intelligence than being an exam machine and to be quite honest, to judge someone purely by their examination results is insulting.Last edited by TheRecorder; 01-01-2015 at 22:03. Reason: Grammatical Correction -
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- 01-01-2015 22:02
If we're talking about young people, yes.(Original post by TheRecorder)
And would you agree with me by saying that this seems to be the way a lot of people judge other people's intellect in today's society? -
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- 01-01-2015 22:07
We aren't measuring intelligence by examinations in school system - we are measuring academic ability.
We aren't judging if fish is smart or stupid by its ability to climb a tree, we are judging if a selected animal can climb a tree and climbing a tree is a pretty good test of that. Now if you go ahead and extrapolate the result that fish can't climb a tree to say fish therefore can not do anything, it is not the problem with the test it is problem with you. -
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- 01-01-2015 22:08
I'm sorry but as far as I know the autistic guys I know aren't very talented in the sense that they aren't sporty or musical or extremely creative.(Original post by Chlorophile)
Sorry, that's just rubbish. It's precisely this kind of right wing mentality that stops us from making progress. You don't have to have autism to not do well under the current system, you can function perfectly 'normally' and still struggle. Unless your talents are purely academic and directly applicable to one of the subjects available in school (and you're good at exam technique), you will not succeed. The above is not the definition of intelligence. You could be an incredibly talented physicist with an outstanding subject understanding and the ability to think creatively and scientifically, yet completely fail under the education system because you don't give the examiners the precise words that appear in the mark scheme. You could be an incredible dancer but be completely deprived of motivation because you didn't succeed in any academic subjects and your parents weren't wealthy enough or willing to pay for dance lessons. There's so much more to intelligence than being an exam machine and to be quite honest, to judge someone purely by their examination results is insulting.
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- 01-01-2015 22:11
How many autistic people do you know? And I really don't understand why you're going on about autistic people, I'm not talking about people with disabilities. People with disabilities may well be part of the set of people who are not done justice by the education system but it's a much wider problem than just the disabled, many hundreds of thousands of non-disabled people are being done a disservice too.(Original post by KingCorneliusIII)
I'm sorry but as far as I know the autistic guys I know aren't very talented in the sense that they aren't sporty or musical or extremely creative.
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- 01-01-2015 22:13
But wouldn't you agree that a lot of people in today's society use educational accolades as an instrument to measure a person's level of intelligence. If that is the case, then does this mean that the system isn't right for what society wants to extrapolate from it?(Original post by swanderfeild)
We aren't measuring intelligence by examinations in school system - we are measuring academic ability.
We aren't judging if fish is smart or stupid by its ability to climb a tree, we are judging if a selected animal can climb a tree and climbing a tree is a pretty good test of that. Now if you go ahead and extrapolate the result that fish can't climb a tree to say fish therefore can not do anything, it is not the problem with the test it is problem with you. -
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- 01-01-2015 22:15
[QUOTE=TheRecorder;52598375]So in a manner you do agree with the picture based upon another, less explicit, message the picture provides. From what you have just said there it is apparent that you do feel the system is floored because everyone within the system is different (with different motives and levels of drive). So, is someone who is spoon fed as intelligent as the person who isn't if they both achieve the same percentage in a standard test? Is the grade achieved from that test a true representation of each person's "intelligence"?[/QUOTE
Yeah defiantly, everyone is different and will have different capabilities, some may be artistically intelligent others statically so on.. I think people can be the same intelligence whatever their level of education -just because you may be 'spoon fed' by going to posh schools or establishments doesn't mean your going to be more intelligent.I do agree wih the picture but obviously there has to be some sort of education system which obviously doesn't benefit some people.
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- 01-01-2015 22:16
This.(Original post by Chlorophile)
Sorry, that's just rubbish. It's precisely this kind of right wing mentality that stops us from making progress. You don't have to have autism to not do well under the current system, you can function perfectly 'normally' and still struggle. Unless your talents are purely academic and directly applicable to one of the subjects available in school (and you're good at exam technique), you will not succeed. The above is not the definition of intelligence. You could be an incredibly talented physicist with an outstanding subject understanding and the ability to think creatively and scientifically, yet completely fail under the education system because you don't give the examiners the precise words that appear in the mark scheme. You could be an incredible dancer but be completely deprived of motivation because you didn't succeed in any academic subjects and your parents weren't wealthy enough or willing to pay for dance lessons. There's so much more to intelligence than being an exam machine and to be quite honest, to judge someone purely by their examination results is insulting.
Exams are simply a method of tracking educational progress for the masses. Any idiot can easily rote-learn an entire syllabus and get a high mark in the exam. Knowledge =/= information retention.
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- 01-01-2015 22:19
And because we are all different, with different strengths and weaknesses, I doubt it will ever happen. The system will benefit someone no matter what because people have strengths in different areas.(Original post by Beth_p)
I do agree wih the picture but obviously there has to be some sort of education system which obviously doesn't benefit some people. -
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- 01-01-2015 22:21
Exactly!the sad thing is it will never suit everybody and I don't see how hat will be resolved(Original post by TheRecorder)
And because we are all different, with different strengths and weaknesses, I doubt it will ever happen. The system will benefit someone no matter what because people have strengths in different areas.
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- 01-01-2015 22:23
I agree with you 100%. It is, yet again, another harsh reality of life.(Original post by Beth_p)
Exactly!the sad thing is it will never suit everybody and I don't see how hat will be resolved -
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- 01-01-2015 22:26
In the ideal world, there will be some system to cater for everybody's strengths and weaknesses. However, this isn't realistically possible. The best solution is simply not judging someone's 'intelligence' solely on the basis of exam performance.(Original post by Beth_p)
Exactly!the sad thing is it will never suit everybody and I don't see how hat will be resolved
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Updated: January 1, 2015
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