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Should annie and james bond be black Watch

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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Annie doesn't matter, it's just one film.

    James Bond is a series, and an institution. To have a black James Bond would be like having a white Othello. It would be weird. If the crew think a black man is the best suited to play the part than fine but having a black Bond for the sake of it would be idiotic.
    I agree
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    We literally have a biblical film out at the minute with an all white cast set in Egypt and people are getting upset over the possibility of having a black James Bond. A lot of people only care when black people take roles of white characters, not the other way around.

    A black Annie makes total sense, as someone has already pointed, Anne was originally a red headed and Irish implied orphan at a time when there was a lot of Irish emigrating to America. Making Annie black is a perfect modern update about a little girl who has been shunned by society and the care system.

    Making James Bond black won't have a massive impact on story, there's no reason a black man can't take up the mantle. We have a black man playing Johnny Storm in the new Fantastic Four, a white character. A woman has taken over the identity of Thor in comics. People will scream about it intially, but if it makes for an interesting twist in the story, then why not do it?
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    For decades, white actors have played characters of colour. No outrage, but when you dare cast a black/ethnic person in a "white role".. chaos. People are even going crazy over the little mixed-race girl in Hunger Games for being cast instead of a white girl, even though the book describes her as "dark-brown". Idris can't be Bond? Oh, but its ok for Benedict Cumberbatch to be cast as Khan in Star Trek.. Incredible really.

    Anyway, I think Annie being black makes absolute sense. When the original Annie was made, she was a ginger pale-white kid and in those times, they were the children that were left behind in orphanages. The unwanted children as their features were considered ugly (ginger). This is because those features were associated with being Irish & as you know, Irish people were discriminated against. This is relevant now as black children are least likely to be adopted in comparison to other children of other ethnicities. But still, who even cares. Most people that are outraged by Bond or Annie are those that constantly say "racism doesn't exist because its 2014". :rolleyes:
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    When it comes to the bond film series, who gives a crap about continuity? The character has gone through over 40 films over 5 decades with 6 different actors playing him. There's no good reason why he can't be played by a black actor as long as the character is British. Hell even Bond's scottish ancestry in the books was added because Fleming liked Connery's performance. Kind of like how the author of Sharpe made the character live in yorkshire for a time to pick up an accent as he liked Sean Bean's performance.

    Idris Elba would make an awesome 007.

    I don't know enough about Annie to comment on the significance of, her racial change in one version of the story.
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    (Original post by Slim and proud)
    These people (British audience) aren't forced to pay for the making of these movies. They have free will as to whether they go out to the cinema and pay to watch these films.
    (Original post by tupper_ware)
    If a white person is unable to connect to a character simply because said character is not white like them, they're probably somewhat racist. Women and non-whites are perfectly able to identify with white male characters, and they have to given how many lead roles in movies are filled by white males. A characters actions and development is what makes them relateable, not the colour of their skin.
    Never did I say it wasn't racist, nor that it was right or fair, or even my personal view. I just think that's probably what is subconsciously behind it. With the possible exception of people like the poster below (who doesn't agree with a blonde Bond), yes, I think there is an element of racism.

    The case that James Bond should stay white, when he's been played by so many different people, doesn't seem like the full argument to me. In making an issue of this, people are saying that skin colour is more significant than hair colour.

    In other words, the fact that there is an argument at all shows that race is the issue at stake in most people's minds, rather than aesthetics.

    The question is whether James Bond should remain as one character, or be reinterpreted in different ways.

    (Original post by B-FJL3)
    Got to disagree with the idea that white people feel more connected to a white character. Is there any evidence for that?

    Personally I am white and have no problems connecting or empathising with a black character or any other onscreen ethnicity. Frankly I probably have more problems empathising with someone of a different gender.

    The reason I would be against a black Bond is down to staying true to the books and the author's original conception. Right now I'm frankly pretty unimpressed by the current Bond being blonde...
    No evidence, and I may well be wrong. I'm reacting to the views of my parents and friends - they aren't 'racist', and they aren't necessarily against a black Bond, but I get the impression that race complicates things in a way blonde hair doesn't (for most people). I do live in a 99% white area though.

    I agree there are far more differences between genders than there are between races.

    Did you not like Daniel Craig? I thought he made a desperately needed change
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    (Original post by Octohedral)
    Never did I say it wasn't racist, nor that it was right or fair, or even my personal view. I just think that's probably what is subconsciously behind it. With the possible exception of people like the poster below (who doesn't agree with a blonde Bond), yes, I think there is an element of racism.

    The case that James Bond should stay white, when he's been played by so many different people, doesn't seem like the full argument to me. In making an issue of this, people are saying that skin colour is more significant than hair colour.

    In other words, the fact that there is an argument at all shows that race is the issue at stake in most people's minds, rather than aesthetics.

    The question is whether James Bond should remain as one character, or be reinterpreted in different ways.



    No evidence, and I may well be wrong. I'm reacting to the views of my parents and friends - they aren't 'racist', and they aren't necessarily against a black Bond, but I get the impression that race complicates things in a way blonde hair doesn't (for most people). I do live in a 99% white area though.

    I agree there are far more differences between genders than there are between races.

    Did you not like Daniel Craig? I thought he made a desperately needed change
    Also quoting from your first post.


    (Original post by Octohedral)
    The underlying issue, which nobody wants to mention, is that statistically most of the (British) audience and critics are likely to be white, and therefore feel more connected to a white character. This is most likely what people really mean when they object.

    As to whether this is racism, or unacceptable, perhaps so. I'm not sure how you change it though. Perhaps you change it by having a black character who exceeds their expectations?
    No offence but these views sound shallow regardless of whether they are your views or those around you. Probably born out of ignorance.
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    The people that have an issue with Annie "not being ginger" are liars. I'm sure if they slapped a curly ginger wig on her or dyed her hair ginger they would still have an issue. Hence the fact that she is black is the factor that is bothering these critics.
    Idc that she's black its not trying or supposed to be like the original film or theater production, its supposed to be a reinvention of the storyline. What would be the point of doing the film exactly the same way? there's always the original to watch.
    Plus, apparently the book said nothing about her hair colour, its just the traditional way of portraying her- the new film isnt traditional.

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    James Bond should be black. I don't give a damn if Annie is black because I don't watch it.
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    I couldn't give less of a **** what skin colour the characters are.
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    James Bond definitely not, because it would mean a total reboot. Bond has an established fictional biography with Scottish descent. That would have to change.

    Annie - there's no reason why not, although the most defining trait of Little Orphan Annie is that she has red hair.

    The thing I object to about the new film is that the Jamie Foxx character is a total cop-out. Should have been brave and stuck with Big Daddy Warbucks, the billionaire arms dealer.
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    What difference does it make if they are?
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    (Original post by tengentoppa)
    Annie doesn't matter, it's just one film.

    James Bond is a series, and an institution. To have a black James Bond would be like having a white Othello. It would be weird. If the crew think a black man is the best suited to play the part than fine but having a black Bond for the sake of it would be idiotic.
    ^^^ Exactly

    Don't see the issue of james bond being white, its a series where the lead character has been white, each movie is suppose to represent the original character, so it would be strange to see James bond to suddenly be turned black, its like saying I was born white/black and one day you wake up a different colour. that wouldn't make senses. Its not like doctor who for example where it would be possible to make the lead character black when he regenerates.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    James Bond definitely not, because it would mean a total reboot. Bond has an established fictional biography with Scottish descent. That would have to change.

    Annie - there's no reason why not, although the most defining trait of Little Orphan Annie is that she has red hair.

    The thing I object to about the new film is that the Jamie Foxx character is a total cop-out. Should have been brave and stuck with Big Daddy Warbucks, the billionaire arms dealer.
    Most movies haven't had a Scottish James Bond though, and a black James Bond could still be Scottish.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    James Bond definitely not, because it would mean a total reboot. Bond has an established fictional biography with Scottish descent. That would have to change.
    But there's been an Australian Bond??
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    (Original post by tupper_ware)
    Most movies haven't had a Scottish James Bond though, and a black James Bond could still be Scottish.
    All the films, books and Bonds thus far have assumed the same Ian Fleming background of a Scottish father and a Swiss mother. Bond gets younger, but these things don't change.

    With a lot of retconning, of course it could be done - but it would be a senseless move for no reason other than a weird right-on motive. James Bond is a white character, and there are many perfectly congruent candidates for Daniel Craig's replacement. Why try and shoehorn in one black actor who isn't even a particulalry good fit?

    The better actor would have been Colin Salmon, who of course was Judi Dench's assistant.

    It's no different to (for no good reason) trying to make Harry Potter ethnically chinese for one film. Why? Everyone accepts that the character is some sort of white british.
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    (Original post by GailQ)
    But there's been an Australian Bond??
    You're confusing the actor and the character.

    Daniel Craig is English. James Bond is "English", but his father is Scottish, and as you see in Skyfall, his family home is in Scotland.

    Lazenby was Australian, Brosnan was Irish. I think Timothy Dalton was Welsh. None of this changes the fictional bio. All depictions of James Bond look vaguely similar, with Moore and Craig being fairer.

    Idris Elba does not look like James Bond.
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    (Original post by tupper_ware)
    If a white person is unable to connect to a character simply because said character is not white like them, they're probably somewhat racist. Women and non-whites are perfectly able to identify with white male characters, and they have to given how many lead roles in movies are filled by white males. A characters actions and development is what makes them relateable, not the colour of their skin.
    Do you think Jaquarius Johnson living in Detoit Ghetto feels any relation at all to Sean Connery's depiction of James Bond?
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    Im sorry but as a Bond fan I don't think this would work, but thats for that particular franchise Where as I think it's really cool to see a black stormtrooper in the new star wars.

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    (Original post by Clip)

    It's no different to (for no good reason) trying to make Harry Potter ethnically chinese for one film. Why? Everyone accepts that the character is some sort of white british.
    I don't agree with this. Harry Potter has an obvious continuity whilst the James Bond films make zero logical sense if you interpret them with the same continuity.
    That's the reason for the argument that it shouldn't matter what race he is, because while the Bond films are a series, they don't have any continuity and therefore each James Bond is not technically the same character.
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    (Original post by Clip)
    You're confusing the actor and the character.

    Daniel Craig is English. James Bond is "English", but his father is Scottish, and as you see in Skyfall, his family home is in Scotland.

    Lazenby was Australian, Brosnan was Irish. I think Timothy Dalton was Welsh. None of this changes the fictional bio. All depictions of James Bond look vaguely similar, with Moore and Craig being fairer.

    Idris Elba does not look like James Bond.
    Except that Bonds family is not commented on until the second to last novel which came out after Dr. No and Connery's performance influenced Fleming in how he wrote him including giving him scottish ancestry.

    Fleming said Bond looked like Hoagy Carmichael and none of the actors that have played bond have looked like him.

    Plus the films have never really cared about continuity, for instance the Craig films make no reference to the fact that he is a Commander in the Navy (whereas numerous previous films he gets referred to as Commander Bond).
 
 
 
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