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Should we all face the fact non STEM subjects are inferior to STEM Watch

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    (Original post by tomfailinghelp)
    Do you live in a cave? I'd say he was a horribly misled ideologue, but he is widely considered a genius.
    Maybe to your social science brians he is...

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    Difficulty: Law > Marine Biology

    Theory = broken
    STEM = irrelevant
    Circle jerk = over

    /thread

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    (Original post by Arieisit)
    Maybe to your social science brians he is...

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    I'm not a social scientist, so no.

    But if what you're suggesting is that only they think he is important, then you're simply wrong. I don't know whether you dogmatically reject all information derived otherwise than from natural science, but though some STEM students (largely not scientists) are like this, not all are.

    It is legitimate (though perhaps false) to say that Marx, or any other social scientist, is a genius. Nothing other than dogmatism can legitimate rejecting all non-STEM thinkers as candidates for genius.
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    Yes! Are you kidding me? Is that even a question?
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    There are so many (STEM)folks claiming that STEM subjects are infinitely more intellectually challenging than non-stem subjects. My area is non-stem and I will gladly admit that I find my non-stem infinitely easier than a stem area. For me to say otherwise would be a tacit concession that I'm not very good at what I'm doing.

    On a serious note, it's pretty obvious that the areas are completely different and if you spend any degree of time on arguing which is 'better', it's entirely possible that you don't have the intellectual maturity to study either at a sufficiently advanced level.
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    STEM degrees are much more intellectually challenging but id say s lot of humanities subjects are more thought provoking. Its the main reason that I got myself involved in politics, law and a debating society to become more rounded and help me acquire skills I wouldn't on a STEM degree.

    If you want to become a genius then you'll learn as much as you can from all areas.
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    (Original post by Dylann)
    An A* in History is worth more than a D in physics...study what you're good at
    Well isn't that fairly obvious! I think a better way to put it would be 'Is an A* in history worth the same as an A* in physics?'

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    As someone who studied STEM pretty much exclusively up to and including university level, before bizarrely writing my dissertation with the business school, becoming employed as an academic researcher by said business school, and subsequently working in a non-STEM industry, I have a strong appreciation for the universal frameworks for thinking that STEM subjects uniquely provide.

    Firstly, the principles of the scientific method can pretty much be applied to whatever you do in life. Then there's the inherent curiosity, skepticism, quick fire analysis, and numerate literacy that are the bread and butter of STEM subjects, which make a visible difference when you bring into any project setting.

    I personally have no doubt that I would have found a degree like philosophy or economics/management more interesting in some ways than my natural sciences degree. But the universal truths and skill sets I was able to acquire from a lifetime of STEM were worth it all.
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    (Original post by frances98)
    Well isn't that fairly obvious! I think a better way to put it would be 'Is an A* in history worth the same as an A* in physics?'

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    My original point focused on students simply choosing to study what they were good at rather than the actual value of the subject. If a student is good at non-STEM subjects and finds STEM very challenging, the student should not study STEM simply because it is "more valuable" but should study what they are good at because the grades will be more valuable. Basically, there's no point of doing the "valuable" STEM subjects if you're going to fail them, I do think though that any student who feels at least mildly comfortable with STEM subjects should study at least one.
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    (Original post by tomfailinghelp)
    I'm not a social scientist, so no.

    But if what you're suggesting is that only they think he is important, then you're simply wrong. I don't know whether you dogmatically reject all information derived otherwise than from natural science, but though some STEM students (largely not scientists) are like this, not all are.

    It is legitimate (though perhaps false) to say that Marx, or any other social scientist, is a genius. Nothing other than dogmatism can legitimate rejecting all non-STEM thinkers as candidates for genius.
    I was making a general statement, hence I said brains. Pay attention to detail.

    What are you then? Humanities? Still, it cannot compare. Maybe they should teach you all how to pay more attention to detail. Or is it just you?

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    (Original post by Arieisit)
    I was making a general statement, hence I said brains. Pay attention to detail.

    What are you then? Humanities? Still, it cannot compare. Maybe they should teach how you all how to pay more attention to detail. Or is it just you?

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    (Original post by SpaceMon)
    Are you trying to get my attention? Because there are other ways...

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    (Original post by em.d_4)
    I think what we really need to recognise is that while STEM subjects are unarguably more intellectually and conceptually challenging it truly depends on the person.
    Clearly any muppet could learn a load of history but that's not what it takes to do well in history. Many people who are good at STEM subjects may struggle to do as well in this because they may not be good with essays or simply may not enjoy it and therefore find it more difficult.
    On the other hand it's not a coincidence that the people we consider to be 'geniuses' such as stephen hawking, or obviously in fiction the big bang theory are all STEM based because who's ever heard of someone who's a genius at geography or history.
    Not because the subjects are inferior more because they present less of a need for great intellectual ability.
    It doesn't take a genius to study STEM. One of my exes is currently doing a physics PhD and she's far from a genius.

    Meanwhile, I'm not sure you're giving due credit to the Shakespeares, Mozarts and Michaeangelos of this world.
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    (Original post by Arieisit)
    I was making a general statement, hence I said brains. Pay attention to detail.

    What are you then? Humanities? Still, it cannot compare. Maybe they should teach how you all how to pay more attention to detail. Or is it just you?

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    I'm having difficulty responding to this, because you aren't really making any sort of argument. If you want to demonstrate that Social Scientists, Philosophers, Historians and Poets cannot be geniuses, then why don't you make an argument for that position?

    I'm guessing it's because you don't have one.
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    (Original post by tomfailinghelp)
    I'm having difficulty responding to this, because you aren't really making any sort of argument. If you want to demonstrate that Social Scientists, Philosophers, Historians and Poets cannot be geniuses, then why don't you make an argument for that position?

    I'm guessing it's because you don't have one.
    Never said they can't be. I was disputing that Karl Marx is a genius. JRR Tolkien and Shakespeare are geniuses in their own right but clearly not in league with minds such as Issac Newton. What has literature and poetry done for humanity? Write more of itself?

    Newton is basically the father of the modern world. N3wtons laws are used extensively in engineering ie bridges, machines like cars, manufacturing lines. And lets not forget the legendary calculus he also invented.

    Tell me, what has Karl Marx done besides makes waves against authority?

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    (Original post by tomfailinghelp)
    Karl Marx wasn't a scientist, and he is widely considered a genius. Descartes was more important as a Philosopher than as a Mathematician, and he is widely considered a genius. Who doesn't think that Shakespeare was a genius?

    Besides, it's not true that how far a person is a genius is well-measured by what people think of them. People think Stephen Hawking is a genius because he knows things about theoretical physics, and that is widely considered a complicated and difficult field of inquiry. But Stephen Hawking also says some incredibly stupid things, and although this doesn't mean he isn't a 'genius' (whatever that is), it does mean that it is not as simple as, 'he is a genius'.

    Natural science is an extraordinarily successful area of inquiry, but it's only another area of inquiry. The reason that we are more likely to consider STEM experts geniuses is because it is a successful area of inquiry, but that doesn't necessarily say anything about the people who partake in it.
    Karl Marx was a scientist.
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    (Original post by William Pitt)
    Karl Marx was a scientist.
    He was? Economist? No, that's not a scientist. NEXT!

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    What an arrogant viewpoint
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    (Original post by Arieisit)
    Never said they can't be. I was disputing that Karl Marx is a genius. JRR Tolkien and Shakespeare are geniuses in their own right but clearly not in league with minds such as Issac Newton. What has literature and poetry done for humanity? Write more of itself?

    Newton is basically the father of the modern world. N3wtons laws are used extensively in engineering ie bridges, machines like cars, manufacturing lines. And lets not forget the legendary calculus he also invented.

    Tell me, what has Karl Marx done besides makes waves against authority?

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    I'm very confused by this. You suggest that experts in the humanities can be geniuses, and obviously Karl Marx is a good candidate for that. So what's your complaint? You disagree with his philosophy? Well, I do too. Which is why I wouldn't say he's a genius. But isn't the question whether or not they can be geniuses, and not which are geniuses?

    If you adopt the criterion of technological advancement as justifying genius then obviously Newton is going to be a genius and Karl Marx is not. Similarly, if you adopt the criterion of numbers of revolutions, Karl Marx will be a genius and Newton, not. What is your point? Isn't the question, 'what criterion establishes genius'?

    Karl Marx has written important works which reveal a lot about economics and various social situations.

    (Original post by William Pitt)
    Karl Marx was a scientist.
    If you're saying that he did something similar to measuring energy, or cells, or w/e, then sure. I didn't know that!

    If you're saying that economics is a science, I'd say that you are out of sync with most people about what constitutes a science.

    If you're saying that his analysis of history was Scientific, I suggest you take a long, hard look at North Korea and reconsider your belief system.
 
 
 
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