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Women drivers in Saudi face trial as terrorists Watch

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    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/w...cle4309131.ece
    http://www.newsweek.com/saudi-women-...r-court-295611

    Saudi authorities arrested the two women—Loujain al-Hathloul and Maysa al-Amoudi—earlier this month after they drove along the border from the United Arab Emirates. There is no formal law forbidding women to drive in Saudi Arabia, but religious edicts are prohibitive, and women are not issued driver’s licenses in the country. For years the authorities have been arresting women who venture into the driver’s seat. But more recently, some women have been defying this informal ban, filming themselves behind the wheel and posting the clips online.
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    Absolutely appalling. Essentially being labelled terrorists for being the wrong gender. How any human being can see this as okay is disturbing. Poor women.
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    Typical. They'll probably be stoned to death.
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    mad how parts of the world can be so backwards still
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    They have lots of oil and are in bed with America/Britain/Israel so it's acceptable.If Russia or Iran did this, they would have defamed the countries to death and used it as an excuse to push sanctions.
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    (Original post by DeLite)
    But more recently, some women have been defying this informal ban, filming themselves behind the wheel and posting the clips online.
    As outrageous as I find the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia, these women will undoubtedly understand their cultural expectations - so fiming themselves behind the wheel is just begging trouble. It's laughable that this can be considered an act of terrorism, let alone a crime, but these women should have known better than to flaunt their deviance in their government's face. The consequences were never going to be a slap on the wrist.
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    (Original post by Reluire)
    As outrageous as I find the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia, these women will undoubtedly understand their cultural expectations - so fiming themselves behind the wheel is just begging trouble. It's laughable that this can be considered an act of terrorism, let alone a crime, but these women should have known better than to flaunt their deviance in their government's face. The consequences were never going to be a slap on the wrist.
    I believe that the whole point of their protest is that they don't agree with their "cultural expectations".

    Should Rosa Parks have known better than to flaunt her deviance in her government's face?
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    (Original post by DeLite)
    I believe that the whole point of their protest is that they don't agree with their "cultural expectations".

    Should Rosa Parks have known better than to flaunt her deviance in her government's face?
    It wasn't made hugely clear that this was a protest. But even if it was, it was hardly a constructive one. With the same logic, if people believed women had the right to kill other people, would we say it was a good thing if they went out and did that to prove their point? I know it's an extreme comparison, but my point is that breaking the rules is not a good way to influence change. Saudi Arabia will only ever change its ways if it's put under extreme international pressure - and even then I'm not sure how much it would be willing to change.

    Rosa Parks didn't film herself and upload a video online. Yes I know in her era that wasn't possible, but you get the point.
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    I'm suprised that they're not executed yet!
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    (Original post by Reluire)
    It wasn't made hugely clear that this was a protest. But even if it was, it was hardly a constructive one. With the same logic, if people believed women had the right to kill other people, would we say it was a good thing if they went out and did that to prove their point? I know it's an extreme comparison, but my point is that breaking the rules is not a good way to influence change. Saudi Arabia will only ever change its ways if it's put under extreme international pressure - and even then I'm not sure how much it would be willing to change.

    Rosa Parks didn't film herself and upload a video online. Yes I know in her era that wasn't possible, but you get the point.
    Of course it was a protest and part of a large campaign organised by Saudi Arabian women demanding the freedom to drive:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_to_drive_movement

    Your comparison to the right to kill is not just extreme but absurd and in no way compares to the harmless and victimless and grotesquely unfair "crime" of a woman driving. Through this campaign, it has certainly got many more people talking about Saudi Arabia's mistreatment of women, including us.

    No, I don't get your point about Rosa Parks. She also broke the rules and "flaunted" it publicly. Is your argument here also that she "should have known better" and not protest that way?

    We need to get a perspective on the type of rules that are being broken and why.
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    mad how parts of the world can be so backwards still
    Because religion.
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    (Original post by DeLite)
    Of course it was a protest and part of a large campaign organised by Saudi Arabian women demanding the freedom to drive:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_to_drive_movement

    Your comparison to the right to kill is not just extreme but absurd and in no way compares to the harmless and victimless and grotesquely unfair "crime" of a woman driving. Through this campaign, it has certainly got many more people talking about Saudi Arabia's mistreatment of women, including us.

    No, I don't get your point about Rosa Parks. She also broke the rules and "flaunted" it publicly. Is your argument here also that she "should have known better" and not protest that way?

    We need to get a perspective on the type of rules that are being broken and why.
    That's the sort of information that would be helpful in the first post, to give a little context.

    On the surface the comparison may seem absurd, but the principle is the same in both: expecting change by breaking rules. That kind of approach will never work in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia will only change if forced by external, international pressure. But few countries are probably willing to make a fuss because of business interests in oil and the likes.

    Rosa Parks didn't flaunt her deviance though. She didn't photograph or video her act and she didn't run to the newspapers or media looking for attention. She did what she did, and others made a big deal out of it. In this situation, these women are making a big deal out of what they're doing themselves, by posting videos of it online in some attempt to throw a middle finger at the government. This is hardly going to inspire the government to change things. I'm in no way defending or condoning the Saudi government or its policies, but I think it's true to say that you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar. It's good to seek change, but not by doing things that unnecessarily put your life at risk.
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Because religion.
    true, does depend on how you interpret religion tho too i suppose..

    if i couldnt drive it probably wouldnt be such a bad thing for society hahaha
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    The government there must be comprised of scum for them to allow this.

    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    Because religion.
    How has women not being allowed to drive got anything to do with religion?
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    true, does depend on how you interpret religion tho too i suppose..

    if i couldnt drive it probably wouldnt be such a bad thing for society hahaha
    It does to some degree. But if people can't be trusted to interpret their chosen religion in only a good way, then they can't be trusted to have religion.
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    (Original post by Protégé)
    How has women not being allowed to drive got anything to do with religion?
    You really think the oppression of women in that ridiculously backward country has nothing to do with religion whatsoever?
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    (Original post by thunder_chunky)
    You really think the oppression of women in that ridiculously backward country has nothing to do with religion whatsoever?
    I don't see how women being banned from driving is associated with Islam. Them being oppressed in other ways is to do with their interpretation of Islam though, yes.
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    (Original post by Protégé)
    I don't see how women being banned from driving is associated with Islam. Them being oppressed in other ways is to so with their interpretation of Islam though, yes.
    "Their interpretation" means they want to oppress women, which they do by restricting their freedoms. Like the ability to drive.
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    (Original post by Reluire)
    That's the sort of information that would be helpful in the first post, to give a little context.

    On the surface the comparison may seem absurd, but the principle is the same in both: expecting change by breaking rules. That kind of approach will never work in a theocracy like Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia will only change if forced by external, international pressure. But few countries are probably willing to make a fuss because of business interests in oil and the likes.

    Rosa Parks didn't flaunt her deviance though. She didn't photograph or video her act and she didn't run to the newspapers or media looking for attention. She did what she did, and others made a big deal out of it. In this situation, these women are making a big deal out of what they're doing themselves, by posting videos of it online in some attempt to throw a middle finger at the government. This is hardly going to inspire the government to change things. I'm in no way defending or condoning the Saudi government or its policies, but I think it's true to say that you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar. It's good to seek change, but not by doing things that unnecessarily put your life at risk.
    I disagree. The comparison isn't really fair since the rules in question are not even remotely comparable. As the person above pointed out, if the rule is absurd then it helps to defy it publicly in order to gain immediate attention and get people talking. Posting and sharing videos on the social media is an effective method of raising awareness. Not many would be interested in listening to a few women giving lectures. But this sort of thing attracts those who are curious; maybe they're under a misconception that women are terrible drivers. Thud the videos of women driving do a good job at disproving such assumptions. You may have a point with regards to antagonising the theocracy, but again this sort of awareness gets people talking worldwide, which might contribute to the international pressure.

    Rosa Parks certainly did defy authority, and I'm sure she knew that it would generate controversy. But someone had to do it, and she was brave enough to go ahead.
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    Typical.
 
 
 
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