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Bank cheif admits labour were not the cause of ressession Watch

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    (Original post by billydisco)
    No, Labour borrowed/printed money via QE and the gilt markets........ this is not the same as saving earnt money.
    So what level of surplus should a Government run?

    Its just when Government's are in suplus, the left want more spending and the right want to cut tax. Nobody (other than the EU) was up in arms about the deficit until after Northern Rock.

    Were you the lone person who wanted Brown to reduce the deficit in March 2007 rather than cut basic rate tax by 2p?
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    (Original post by Quady)


    The Victorian state didn't even have to part fund the BBC...

    I thought it was '1930s levels' but I still don't think its comparing apples with apples.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30323690
    Here's something from someone I have a higher opinion of than the beeb. Lot of sources as well.

    http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2014...xt-four-years/

    You mention the NHS. Will the like of Osborne are on a mission to get rid of the NHS and and other various post war achievements. Proper full on neoliberals do want to return to pre war set up, so to say Osbourne wants to shrink the state to that seen in the 1930s isn't really that far fetched. It's whether he will be able to do it.

    The BBC were correct this time. Even a broken clock tells the correct time twice.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    It's a real problem though. The conservatives released their first piece of election propaganda stating they cut the deficit by a third. Most people will think that means they have cut the debt by a third, rather than realizing debt had been increasing. It's almost like the population are not educated in economics (even the neoclassical alchemy) just so people remain stupid and in the dark, easier to manipulate that way.
    Oh yeah and Labour telling the country how they'll tax every single entity which brings money in to the country doesn't show a lack of economic understanding :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Here's something from someone I have a higher opinion of than the beeb. Lot of sources as well.

    http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2014...xt-four-years/

    You mention the NHS. Will the like of Osborne are on a mission to get rid of the NHS and and other various post war achievements.

    The BBC were correct this time. Even a broken clock tells the correct time twice.
    I didn't realise Queen Victoria was still kicking around in 1930 :P

    I didn't say the BBC was wrong (your link agrees with mine from the BBC), I was saying you were wrong about the Victorian shizz...
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So what level of surplus should a Government run?

    Its just when Government's are in suplus, the left want more spending and the right want to cut tax. Nobody (other than the EU) was up in arms about the deficit until after Northern Rock.

    Were you the lone person who wanted Brown to reduce the deficit in March 2007 rather than cut basic rate tax by 2p?
    Save money or cut tax- is much better than deciding to employ 3 civil service toilet cleaners for every 2 who were actually required, or to pay a single unemployed mum of 2 kids £20k a year in benefits, or to think rebuilding every school in existence will automatically make the children of this country smarter (when the exam papers were stupidly getting easier), or spending hundreds of billions on IT projects whilst all multinational companies manage to achieve the same using a few tens of millions......
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    A lot of the ignorance has just been generated by the right in the media and by right wing politicians. They like to keep the public stupid. The best example is all that endless harping on that Maggie did about households balancing their books and the state needing to be frugal and have no debt, which is utter nonsense given that everything from the banks to pensions to the financial system precisely relies on the government printing debt. These simplistic reactionary nostrums are what keeps the neoliberal agenda in power and were carefully thought up by skilled propaganda experts in ad agencies and the like. Orwell by other means.
    Its endemic of politics in general rather than just the right. Just look at the left wing press and their belief that the NHS will be abolished and replaced with the American model.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    Its endemic of politics in general rather than just the right. Just look at the left wing press and their belief that the NHS will be abolished and replaced with the American model.
    There's been enough of a drizzle of attempts to monetize the NHS to be more than a little suspicious that that is indeed the plan. Not to mention TTIP which once implemented will highly likely make it illegal for the UK not to allow it to be taken over by US health insurance giants. Those aren't mad conspiracy theories, given the history of what our Lords and Masters in the neocon and neoliberal elites have repeatedly tried to impose since the 80s.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    Save money or cut tax- is much better than deciding to employ 3 civil service toilet cleaners for every 2 who were actually required, or two pay a single unemployed mum of 2 kids £20k a year in benefits, or to think rebuilding every school in existence will automatically make the children of this country smarter (when the exam papers were stupidly getting easier), or spending hundreds of billions on IT projects whilst all multinational companies manage to achieve the same using a few tens of millions......
    wow, usually your sentence structure is better - was that purposeful?

    Since I work in IT I'd challenge that.

    Take Barclaycard - a subsection of Barclays.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/carl-%2...tman/0/194/70a

    Before he was CIO, he had a budget of $320m/annum just for day to day live running - no development expenditure...

    Where the heck do you get 'a few tens of millions' from?
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    There's been enough of a drizzle of attempts to monetize the NHS to be more than a little suspicious that that is indeed the plan. Not to mention TTIP which once implemented will highly likely make it illegal for the UK not to allow it to be taken over by US health insurance giants. Those aren't mad conspiracy theories, given the history of what our Lords and Masters in the neocon and neoliberal elites have repeatedly tried to impose since the 80s.
    What always gets me is this line people come out with, "If a private corporation can do the job just as well as the public sector and it is still free at the point of use, it's Ok to outsource NHS healthcare"

    I always think, if a company can run an NHS service for a profit, the public sector could do the exact same and reinvest what money the private company regarded as profit, either in expanded services or the money could be send to other areas of the NHS. There is no reason why there should not be the same drive for efficiency in the public sector as there is in the private sector, with the additional savings used for the collective good.
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    Not to mention TTIP which once implemented will highly likely make it illegal for the UK not to allow it to be taken over by US health insurance giants.
    Really?

    When TTIP comes in, on day one do the US health insurance giants start running it?

    How comes they get it?
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    What always gets me is this line people come out with, "If a private corporation can do the job just as well as the public sector and it is still free at the point of use, it's Ok to outsource NHS healthcare"

    I always think, if a company can run an NHS service for a profit, the public sector could do the exact same and reinvest what money the private company regarded as profit, either in expanded services or the money could be send to other areas of the NHS. There is no reason why there should not be the same drive for efficiency in the public sector as there is in the private sector, with the additional savings used for the collective good.
    Not to mention that private company will demand the maximum amount of money it can get whenever it does anything. They are in the business of making money, not in the business of providing the cheapest service possible. It can actually end up costing the tax payer more than if it had remained as a state service instead of being outsourced to the private sector.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Really?

    When TTIP comes in, on day one do the US health insurance giants start running it?

    How comes they get it?
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...u-9779688.html


    We could in theory get a watered down version which leaves the NHS out of it. But TTIP is pretty much about letting American corporations make money from privatizing public services in Europe. That and make is possible for corporation to sue a government if said governments tries to nationalize to take what was privatized back. It really is handing all the power to concentrations of wealth that are not even based in this country. It is an assault on our democracy and sovereignty.


    "Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss of profits. In effect it means unelected transnational corporations can dictate the policies of democratically elected governments."

    You know all that sci-fi based around corporations taking over the world, It's like an actual sci-fi corporatist dystopia
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    (Original post by Quady)
    wow, usually your sentence structure is better - was that purposeful?

    Since I work in IT I'd challenge that.

    Take Barclaycard - a subsection of Barclays.
    https://www.linkedin.com/pub/carl-%2...tman/0/194/70a

    Before he was CIO, he had a budget of $320m/annum just for day to day live running - no development expenditure...

    Where the heck do you get 'a few tens of millions' from?
    It doesn't cost tens of billions to allow a GP/hospital to read/write patient records to a centralised database.....
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    Remember when they said privatisation would bring prices down for the customer?
    Today there was a 2.5% increase in rail fares.
    A season ticket from London to Milton Keynes costs £5,000.

    Yep, really bringing the price down...
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    (Original post by Fullofsurprises)
    There's been enough of a drizzle of attempts to monetize the NHS to be more than a little suspicious that that is indeed the plan. Not to mention TTIP which once implemented will highly likely make it illegal for the UK not to allow it to be taken over by US health insurance giants. Those aren't mad conspiracy theories, given the history of what our Lords and Masters in the neocon and neoliberal elites have repeatedly tried to impose since the 80s.
    There's a big distinction between contracting services and abolishing our state funding model for an insurance one.

    What TTIP will do is allow US companies to bid for these contracts in the same way we already allow European companies to do so and indeed it will rightly be illegal to stop them from doing so. There's no evidence that I've ever seen that leads me to believe we will have to abolish our funding model, just spurious claims with no evidence.
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    (Original post by billydisco)
    It doesn't cost tens of billions to allow a GP/hospital to read/write patient records to a centralised database.....
    Nope that was a mess.

    Even worse than Vista.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Not to mention that private company will demand the maximum amount of money it can get whenever it does anything. They are in the business of making money, not in the business of providing the cheapest service possible. It can actually end up costing the tax payer more than if it had remained as a state service instead of being outsourced to the private sector.
    I agree.

    In reality the value for the taxpayer would be far worse for this reason, but I do feel it is important to address this theoretical argument of "private sector is always more efficient" people on TSR think they can repeat, acting as if they are economics PhD's.
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    (Original post by yo radical one)
    I agree.

    In reality the value for the taxpayer would be far worse for this reason, but I do feel it is important to address this theoretical argument of "private sector is always more efficient" people on TSR think they can repeat, acting as if they are economics PhD's.
    who also talk a lot of crap :P
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Remember when they said privatisation would bring prices down for the customer?
    Today there was a 2.5% increase in rail fares.
    A season ticket from London to Milton Keynes costs £5,000.

    Yep, really bringing the price down...
    And these privatized rail ways still cost the tax payer a packet! :mad:
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...u-9779688.html

    We could in theory get a watered down version which leaves the NHS out of it. But TTIP is pretty much about letting American corporations make money from privatizing public services in Europe. That and make is possible for corporation to sue a government if said governments tries to nationalize to take what was privatized back. It really is handing all the power to concentrations of wealth that are not even based in this country. It is an assault on our democracy and sovereignty.

    "Investor-State Dispute Settlements (ISDS), which allow companies to sue governments if those governments’ policies cause a loss of profits. In effect it means unelected transnational corporations can dictate the policies of democratically elected governments."

    You know all that sci-fi based around corporations taking over the world, It's like an actual sci-fi corporatist dystopia
    Membership of the EU already makes it illegal to nationalize things like the railways.

    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Remember when they said privatisation would bring prices down for the customer?
    Today there was a 2.5% increase in rail fares.
    A season ticket from London to Milton Keynes costs £5,000.

    Yep, really bringing the price down...
    The railways are franchised with moderation of competition clauses written in and government interference galore.

    To anybody who believes in the virtue of perfect competition, the current market structure is offensive.
 
 
 
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