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Differentiation involving summation

How would I differentiate an equation inlvoling a sum?

e.g.

ddti=1nln(1+txi)\frac{d}{dt}\sum_{i=1}^n ln(1+tx_i)

Thank you!

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Original post by shootingstars123
How would I differentiate an equation inlvoling a sum?

e.g.

ddti=1nln(1+txi)\frac{d}{dt}\sum_{i=1}^n ln(1+tx_i)

Thank you!


T is a parameter?
Maybe look if it converges. Tbh I have no idea though.


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Reply 2
Original post by shootingstars123
How would I differentiate an equation inlvoling a sum?

e.g.

ddti=1nln(1+txi)\frac{d}{dt}\sum_{i=1}^n ln(1+tx_i)

Thank you!


differentiate w.r.t t as per usual inside the summation.
Original post by shootingstars123
How would I differentiate an equation inlvoling a sum?

e.g.

ddti=1nln(1+txi)\frac{d}{dt}\sum_{i=1}^n ln(1+tx_i)

Thank you!

You already know that the derivative of a sum is the sum of the derivatives, I take it?
Original post by Smaug123
You already know that the derivative of a sum is the sum of the derivatives, I take it?


How would you prove this. ive never come across stuff like this.is this first year undergrad or something?


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Original post by Smaug123
You already know that the derivative of a sum is the sum of the derivatives, I take it?


is it just u differentiate each term independantly like x+x^2


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Original post by physicsmaths
How would you prove this. ive never come across stuff like this.is this first year undergrad or something?


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First-year undergrad, yes. From the definition of 'derivative': (f+g)(x)=limh0(f+g)(x+h)(f+g)(x)h=limh0(f(x+h)f(x)h+g(x+h)g(x)h)=limh0f(x+h)f(x)h+limh0g(x+h)g(x)h=f(x)+g(x)\displaystyle (f+g)'(x) = \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{(f+g)(x+h)-(f+g)(x)}{h} \\ = \lim_{h \to 0} \left( \dfrac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{h} +\dfrac{g(x+h)-g(x)}{h} \right) \\ = \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{h} + \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{g(x+h) - g(x)}{h} = f'(x) + g'(x).
Original post by physicsmaths
is it just u differentiate each term independantly like x+x^2


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ddx(x+x2)=ddx(x)+ddx(x2)=1+2x\dfrac{d}{dx} (x+x^2) = \dfrac{d}{dx}(x) + \dfrac{d}{dx} (x^2) = 1 + 2x.
Original post by Smaug123
First-year undergrad, yes. From the definition of 'derivative': (f+g)(x)=limh0(f+g)(x+h)(f+g)(x)h=limh0(f(x+h)f(x)h+g(x+h)g(x)h)=limh0f(x+h)f(x)h+limh0g(x+h)g(x)h=f(x)+g(x)\displaystyle (f+g)'(x) = \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{(f+g)(x+h)-(f+g)(x)}{h} \\ = \lim_{h \to 0} \left( \dfrac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{h} +\dfrac{g(x+h)-g(x)}{h} \right) \\ = \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{h} + \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{g(x+h) - g(x)}{h} = f'(x) + g'(x).


thanks ! interesting


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If it was an innfinite sum then the question would be a little bit more involving :biggrin:
Reply 10
Original post by hassassin04
If it was an innfinite sum then the question would be a little bit more involving :biggrin:


How so? I'm intrigued. :eek:
Original post by hassassin04
If it was an innfinite sum then the question would be a little bit more involving :biggrin:

Original post by Zacken
How so? I'm intrigued. :eek:

There is a theorem which states that all power series have "circles of convergence": if they converge for zCz \in \mathbb{C} then they converge for all wCw \in \mathbb{C} with w<z|w| < |z|.

There is a further theorem which states that all power series are differentiable inside their circles of convergence, and the derivative is the termwise derivative of the power series. (It's a several-part theorem: the termwise derivative of the power series does converge, the power series is differentiable, and the termwise derivative converges to the derivative of the power series.) This is a bit involved to prove: I've seen two proofs, one of which seemed pretty un-motivated to me, and one which goes by the notion of uniform continuity. It's not at all an obvious result, though.
Reply 12
Original post by Smaug123
There is a theorem which states that all power series have "circles of convergence": if they converge for zCz \in \mathbb{C} then they converge for all wCw \in \mathbb{C} with w<z|w| < |z|.

There is a further theorem which states that all power series are differentiable inside their circles of convergence, and the derivative is the termwise derivative of the power series. (It's a several-part theorem: the termwise derivative of the power series does converge, the power series is differentiable, and the termwise derivative converges to the derivative of the power series.) This is a bit involved to prove: I've seen two proofs, one of which seemed pretty un-motivated to me, and one which goes by the notion of uniform continuity. It's not at all an obvious result, though.


Well, I suppose it's an improvement that I understood most of those words. :wink:

Seriously though, I've heard of that before, this should really motivate me into doing some sequences and series. Can't find any resources for them though.
Reply 13
Original post by Zacken
Well, I suppose it's an improvement that I understood most of those words. :wink:

Seriously though, I've heard of that before, this should really motivate me into doing some sequences and series. Can't find any resources for them though.


What level of knowledge are you at?

The result quoted by Smaug is a fairly standard piece of complex variable theory, probably covered in 2nd year at a 'decent' university.

There is a real-variable equivalent which would be covered as part of 1st year Analysis, so you should be able to find some good resources in any half-decent Analysis textbook (either real or complex),
Original post by Smaug123
There is a theorem which states that all power series have "circles of convergence": if they converge for zCz \in \mathbb{C} then they converge for all wCw \in \mathbb{C} with w<z|w| < |z|.

There is a further theorem which states that all power series are differentiable inside their circles of convergence, and the derivative is the termwise derivative of the power series. (It's a several-part theorem: the termwise derivative of the power series does converge, the power series is differentiable, and the termwise derivative converges to the derivative of the power series.) This is a bit involved to prove: I've seen two proofs, one of which seemed pretty un-motivated to me, and one which goes by the notion of uniform continuity. It's not at all an obvious result, though.


This is true for power series, but not more generally. You need uniform convergence of the derivatives of the terms.
Reply 15
Original post by davros
What level of knowledge are you at?

The result quoted by Smaug is a fairly standard piece of complex variable theory, probably covered in 2nd year at a 'decent' university.

There is a real-variable equivalent which would be covered as part of 1st year Analysis, so you should be able to find some good resources in any half-decent Analysis textbook (either real or complex),


*coughs* Still self-studying A-Levels. :colondollar: I'm comfortable with most of C1-4, FP1 and M1. So yeah, this is a little out of my depth, but I rather like being out of my depth. :tongue:
Original post by Zacken
*coughs* Still self-studying A-Levels. :colondollar: I'm comfortable with most of C1-4, FP1 and M1. So yeah, this is a little out of my depth, but I rather like being out of my depth. :tongue:


how old are u?


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Reply 17
Original post by physicsmaths


Well, I'll be turning 17 in June this year. :smile:
Reply 18
Original post by Smaug123
First-year undergrad, yes. From the definition of 'derivative': (f+g)(x)=limh0(f+g)(x+h)(f+g)(x)h=limh0(f(x+h)f(x)h+g(x+h)g(x)h)=limh0f(x+h)f(x)h+limh0g(x+h)g(x)h=f(x)+g(x)\displaystyle (f+g)'(x) = \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{(f+g)(x+h)-(f+g)(x)}{h} \\ = \lim_{h \to 0} \left( \dfrac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{h} +\dfrac{g(x+h)-g(x)}{h} \right) \\ = \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{f(x+h) - f(x)}{h} + \lim_{h \to 0} \dfrac{g(x+h) - g(x)}{h} = f'(x) + g'(x).

I'm not an undergrad, but wouldn't a simpler proof be a geometric one? The sum of the functions' gradients will be the same as the gradient of the whole function due to the individual functions each contributing to the whole function so the rates of change MUST clearly be equal. Isn't it intuitively obvious? Or are there some cases I've not considered here.
Original post by TVIO
I'm not an undergrad, but wouldn't a simpler proof be a geometric one? The sum of the functions' gradients will be the same as the gradient of the whole function due to the individual functions each contributing to the whole function so the rates of change MUST clearly be equal. Isn't it intuitively obvious? Or are there some cases I've not considered here.

I don't find it intuitively obvious in that sense, and intuition can be a very bad guide in analysis. However, my geometric intuition is really really bad. I dropped the Algebraic Topology course that "has no prerequisites other than a modicum of geometrical intuition" because nothing at all was obvious to me, and a whole bunch of questions which my supervisor and supervision partner answered with "it's blindingly obvious, I mean, I can't describe it but look, it's obvious" remained opaque to me.

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