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    (Original post by not)
    Why couldn't you afford to go? There would be no upfront costs that you wouldn't have been able to meet. All these costs you're throwing around are covered by your loan and maintenance grants, and if you're ever in deep trouble, Durham will help you out.

    Don't panic about debts, it's FREE money! The interest is in line with inflation, you're paying nothing to borrow it, and it's extremely easy to default on, so you're doing really quite well out of this loan. As far as you should be concerned it's interest free and will never become unmanageable.

    Without any condescending tone intended, it sounds like you're misinformed about university finance and it sounds like your worries have been triggered by the scaremongering of the militant anti fees lobby.
    I'd be worried about defaulting. Can't your NI number be fed into any wage system in the EU? Also, the loan companies will build in more safeguards to meet increasing rates of default- they will have to do this. As fees rise, so will rates of default, and the loan companies will be ready to address this.
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    I'm not so bothered about an across-the-board £3,000 fee which doesn't need to be paid until you're earning over £15k/year, what I do object to is having variable fees between universities which will inevitably happen if the cap is lifted and there becomes a difference in charges between the top and bottom universities. The sheer thought of having to pay off larger amounts of debt when you're in the workforce (especially if you're from a low-income background) is enough of a deterrent to prevent you from applying to a top-fee university.

    While the demonstration is good in principle, the lifting of the cap won't be reviewed in Parliament until 2009 so I don't see why they don't hold it off until near then - unless the NUS want to be actively seen as doing something to justify their affiliation membership fees.
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    going back to the actual question...whose going?..i am!
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    (Original post by not)
    Three words: needs blind admission
    Harvard has it. And look at Oxbridge now, they're awfully generous to students from low income backgrounds.


    Withold your assumptions, you don't want a who's poorest? competition with me, I guarantee you're more middle class than I am.
    I guess that's why Harvard is so chock-full of working class black and latino kids then.

    If you don't consider yourself wealthy then supporting astronomical fees at university is not only illogical, it's plain stupid.
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    (Original post by Muse)
    I'm not so bothered about an across-the-board £3,000 fee which doesn't need to be paid until you're earning over £15k/year, what I do object to is having variable fees between universities which will inevitably happen if the cap is lifted and there becomes a difference in charges between the top and bottom universities. The sheer thought of having to pay off larger amounts of debt when you're in the workforce (especially if you're from a low-income background) is enough of a deterrent to prevent you from applying to a top-fee university.
    I completely agree with this. It concerns me that if the cap were lifted, universities could potentially charge what they like, which could lead to a real social gap, where only those from more priviliged backgrounds could afford to go to top universities without having the prospect of enormous debt after graduation. It would be an absolute disgrace if, after what seems like good progress in ensuring that socio-economic backgrounds are not a grounds for discrimination when offering places, this was completely undone.

    So I'll be there.
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    (Original post by icedout)
    I guess that's why Harvard is so chock-full of working class black and latino kids then.

    If you don't consider yourself wealthy then supporting astronomical fees at university is not only illogical, it's plain stupid.
    Iceout I agree with you, but the reason Harvard,etc. are not full of working class kids of color is that they don't even make it to the college admissions process- the deck is stacked in bad neighborhoods and poor schools. Need blind admission is a great idea if you get that far, Princeton has it too, also guaranteed fees/loans packages. I'm totally against lifting the cap and differential fees in a "free market". BTW, I'm from the USA and the tuition sitiuation is madness. For example, many kids who enlist in the US armed forces do so because of a promise of "help with college". They are from big families, or did not do well in high school, or didn't finish high school, or live in small towns where there are not many good jobs. Any school which accepts federal money, and they all do, or they wouldn't survive, has to give contact details for all male high school students to the US Department of Defense, which then contacts kids to entice them to enlist with offers in recruitment packages. It's usually the most vulnerable kids, the ones with the least options, who go for enlistment, and many end up in the cruelty, rage and despair of Iraq.
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    I don't see it as free money, and even with the loans they give you, it's not enough to cover my accomodation or living expenses. I am wary of debt because I have grown up with the burden of it all my life. Most of my friends are apathetic towards it because they've not known what it's like to suffer at the wrath of it. My parents are being taken to court and I have a serious risk of being homeless in the next few months (house in stages of repossession), and that's before I even consider the debt I face at University. Yet I'm going to get no grants or bursaries to help me because my parents' income is above the threshold. What am I supposed to do to survive at University? Right now, there is no way I can.


    (Original post by not)
    Three words: needs blind admission
    Harvard has it. And look at Oxbridge now, they're awfully generous to students from low income backgrounds.
    So good to people who can't afford to University that I'm seriously considering dropping out of the place I have at Oxford next year...
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    (Original post by yorkshirelass)
    So good to people who can't afford to University that I'm seriously considering dropping out of the place I have at Oxford next year...
    Why? They will help you, they won't let you leave (or not go?) for financial reasons. They have funds for people in your situation. Go to Oxford, it will get you away from the stresses in your life right now, and it will help you to become more independent in the future so you become less vulnerable to them in the future.

    And again, the reason people are more apathetic towards student debt is because (a) repayments are based on your earnings so debt like that can't become unmanageable and (b) the debt is written off if you don't get that great salary you were promised when going up to uni.
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    Damn double post.
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    It's the fault of the media that many people have this irrational fear on not being able to afford go to university.

    In fact the ones who really "can't afford it" are the lower-middle class students like myself.

    I will not receive anything from either the government or the university. I will be paying the full whack of £3100 or whatever it is next year and be taking out full living cost loans from the government. Yet this will not be enough and I'll probably have ot take out additional loans that charge real interest.

    To the poster who receives full grants:

    I am looking at £30k debt coming out of univeristy if I don't work while there because my family will not ferry me up to university, pay my tution fees, living costs and give men spending money, because they cannot afford to.

    Of course, I plan to get a job while I am at university so my debts hopefully should not breach the £20k barrier. Yet, I know that university is well worth it and I will not be buried under loan repayments like some people seem to think graduates are.
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    (Original post by not)
    Why? They will help you, they won't let you leave (or not go?) for financial reasons. They have funds for people in your situation. Go to Oxford, it will get you away from the stresses in your life right now, and it will help you to become more independent in the future so you become less vulnerable to them in the future.

    And again, the reason people are more apathetic towards student debt is because (a) repayments are based on your earnings so debt like that can't become unmanageable and (b) the debt is written off if you don't get that great salary you were promised when going up to uni.
    I was under the impression that Oxford grants/bursaries operate in exactly the same way as anywhere else. The letter I received with my offer letter explained it was all calculated automatically when you apply for the student loan - all based on income. I doubt they would make an exception for me, would they?
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    I considered going until I found out that I had to be at the hospital at 8am this morning for a ward round. I know that on of the unis down here is sending up a bus, I don't know which one it is though.
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    doesnt matter how much you protest. it all ready in place... maybe should have got organised a bit faster :P
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    (Original post by TomoB)
    doesnt matter how much you protest. it all ready in place... maybe should have got organised a bit faster :P
    Exactly, which is the reason why I to be honest didn't go (as well as laziness). I highly doubt the government will go back and take away top up fees after a whole year of implementation, especially when universities are complaining the tuition fees aren't high enough to cover costs. The sad truth is that these fees are here to stay long-term.
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    It amazes me how much spin the NUS have put on the whole tuition fee debate. From what I’ve seen, they don’t even try and give the facts behind the policy.

    The President of NUS said (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6090872.stm): “It takes years to recover from that financial burden, particularly for women, due to career breaks and pay inequality”.

    Sorry, no, you're wrong.

    If a female takes a career break, and she is not earning a salary which is £15k or over, then she wont pay ANYTHING until she does. After 25 years, if anything remains unpaid, it will be wiped off.

    The protest was called "Admission Impossible". Frankly, that's total rubbish. Students from non-traditional university backgrounds are far better off under this system than they would have been under the old one. All students are better off now, because they don’t pay any fees at all during their time in university.

    The NUS is a total irrelevance and a waste of time, imo.

    I suggest you all read this - excellent read. http://education.guardian.co.uk/stud...926407,00.html
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    (Original post by TomoB)
    doesnt matter how much you protest. it all ready in place... maybe should have got organised a bit faster :P
    Wrong. It's not 'all ready in place'. The main purpose of this demonstration was to protest against lifting the cap on tuition fees (for 2010 if I remember correctly), which as someone mentioned earlier, is being reviewed in 2009.

    The lifting of the cap will, at this rate, go ahead. But there is still a chance of stopping it, if people act. It is certainly not set in stone yet.
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    I went, it was good fun with only a few minor incidents. Disappointed how many students turned out though - not many at all really. But at least I managed to sell ALL my copies of Socialist Worker on the coach on the way down
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    (Original post by martynwilliams)
    It amazes me how much spin the NUS have put on the whole tuition fee debate. From what I’ve seen, they don’t even try and give the facts behind the policy.

    The President of NUS said (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6090872.stm): “It takes years to recover from that financial burden, particularly for women, due to career breaks and pay inequality”.

    Sorry, no, you're wrong.

    If a female takes a career break, and she is not earning a salary which is £15k or over, then she wont pay ANYTHING until she does. After 25 years, if anything remains unpaid, it will be wiped off.

    The protest was called "Admission Impossible". Frankly, that's total rubbish. Students from non-traditional university backgrounds are far better off under this system than they would have been under the old one. All students are better off now, because they don’t pay any fees at all during their time in university.

    The NUS is a total irrelevance and a waste of time, imo.

    I suggest you all read this - excellent read. http://education.guardian.co.uk/stud...926407,00.html
    I agree that NUS's strategy is all wrong. It isn't students from working class families that suffer the most from top-up fees, it's students from lower middle class families, as they just miss out on the bursaries and grants and their parents can't afford to subsidise their education. It is a fact that applications have fell this year and I don't think that it is a coincidence that it happened to be in the first year of top-up fees. However, I think the panic rush applications that gap year students will have undergone last year will have contributed to fewer students applying this year. All in all, this thread was intended to create a debate about top-up fees as I don't have time to sufficiently argue. I would just like to point out that it isn't just the individual that benefits from a university education, it is indeed society. May this be due to visiting a doctor or a dentist or even simply that graduates will pay more in taxes over the course of their career than non graduates and will therefore pay back the cost of their education more than once. I fear how student debt will effect the economy in years to come. Think about it, would a student be as willing to buy a new car or commit to a mortgage with in excess of £20,000 of debt hanging above their heads than if they didn't face such debts. It is already hard enough to get onto the property ladder. One of the reasons why the economy is booming at the moment is because of confidence within the country. And creating a wave of millions of people with debt will surely effect the amount of spending within the country in years to come. You don't need me to explain how this leads to job losses and the like. Furthermore, how many years do you think top-up fees could have been avoided if we hadn't gone to war with Iraq and spent the money on higher education.
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    (Original post by Muse)
    I'm not so bothered about an across-the-board £3,000 fee which doesn't need to be paid until you're earning over £15k/year, what I do object to is having variable fees between universities which will inevitably happen if the cap is lifted and there becomes a difference in charges between the top and bottom universities. The sheer thought of having to pay off larger amounts of debt when you're in the workforce (especially if you're from a low-income background) is enough of a deterrent to prevent you from applying to a top-fee university.

    While the demonstration is good in principle, the lifting of the cap won't be reviewed in Parliament until 2009 so I don't see why they don't hold it off until near then - unless the NUS want to be actively seen as doing something to justify their affiliation membership fees.
    I think the system for government grants etc is very unfair:mad: Just because someone is not from a lower income family does not mean they are any richer than someone who is. My family earns to much for me to get any grants but my Parents pay nothing for me. My jobs earn peanuts, and I will be looking at £30k debt at least when I leave. Grants should be offered to everyone or no one. (Of course it would be better to have no fees at all but there you go).
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    Us Brits dont know the meaning of 'protests'. Take a look at the french riots last year, the youths were out smahin up cars etc. etc. causing havoc and not stopping until they got what they wanted. I think our gov. neads a shock like that to make them re think their ways.
 
 
 
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