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Racial murders: nearly half the victims are white watch

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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    However, on a more sensible note, out of all the murders that have occurred between '95 and '04, for only 58 to be racial is surely a strong sign that multiculturalism, in whatever incarnation we're practicing it, works.
    Lol it hardly shows that multiculturism works. It shows that most of the UK public, aswell as immigrants, don't go around murdering people because they don't believe in multiculturism :rofl:
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    (Original post by Ryan)
    Lol it hardly shows that multiculturism works. It shows that most of the UK public, aswell as immigrants, don't go around murdering people because they don't believe in multiculturism :rofl:
    True, true. The fact that people aren't murdering each other for racial reasons... very much... hardly shows that multiculturalism is working well.
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    (Original post by Chumbaniya)
    True, true. The fact that people aren't murdering each other for racial reasons... very much... hardly shows that multiculturalism is working well.
    How do you know they're all specifically racial murders? Does it actually say they're pure racist murders? It just says race played a key part.

    Maybe in the case of a white murdering a black there are more reasons - maybe race was one of them - but it could only be one factor - i.e maybe a drunken fight in the pub or somehting.

    How do you know for example a white wasn't racist to an asian who then retaliated?

    Statistics are not such a great help unlesss we have a little more info in this case IMO.
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    Care to explain your payback comment?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Care to explain your payback comment?
    Payback from a time in the 70'/80's when most crimes were probably against asians/black? I'm sure there are a lot of people out there with pent up aggression (which may or may not be a factor in these crimes specifically)
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    Payback from a time in the 70'/80's when most crimes were probably against asians/black? I'm sure there are a lot of people out there with pent up aggression (which may or may not be a factor in these crimes specifically)
    Most of the current perpetrators weren't even alive at that point, so the notion that they should have some sort of deep seated grudge due to personal experience is odd.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Most of the current perpetrators weren't even alive at that point, so the notion that they should have some sort of deep seated grudge due to personal experience is odd.
    'which may or may not be a factor'

    I know various kids who had a tough time at school with racism and still hold a angry feelings. wouldn't surprise me one bit if they ended up in race related fights.

    edit:
    if you look at the kriss donald case there is an indication that there was some kind of racial altercation the night before - i seriously doubt these guys just randomly decided to kill this boy because he was white - probably after a build up of hatred for white people.
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    if you look at the kriss donald case there is an indication that there was some kind of racial altercation the night before - i seriously doubt these guys just randomly decided to kill this boy because he was white - probably after a build up of hatred for white people.
    Clearly they have amassed a hatred for white people - that's implicit in the fact it was a racially motivated murder. So what?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    Clearly they have amassed a hatred for white people - that's implicit in the fact it was a racially motivated murder. So what?
    My payback comment was that the people who commited those murders probably did so because they had ammassed a hatred for white people - therefore it was payback for attacks on other people of their race/colour or on them. Does that explain my comment? It can even be shown in the Kriss Donald case in the space of 24 hours.

    I also know a few people who generally do not trust white people/hate them - not because they have every recieved a racist attack from them but just going on past experiences and experiences of their friends - so my past based on the 70/80's comment isn't totally irrelevant - maybe just needs to be brought upto date.
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    My payback comment was that the people who commited those murders probably did so because they had ammassed a hatred for white people - therefore it was payback for attacks on other people of their race/colour or on them. Does that explain my comment? It can even be shown in the Kriss Donald case in the space of 24 hours.

    I also know a few people who generally do not trust white people/hate them - not because they have every recieved a racist attack from them but just going on past experiences and experiences of their friends - so my past based on the 70/80's comment isn't totally irrelevant - maybe just needs to be brought upto date.
    So when you say "Payback" what you mean is "an attack on an innocent third party based on his/her ethnicity due to a perceived injustice or mistreatment of someone of the same race as the actor (often years previously and not the actor himself/herself) and built up racism due to mass generalisations akin to "I got robbed by a black man, therefore I don't trust any of them'"?

    Yeah... I suppose I can get onboard with that.

    And for your "friends" who "hate" white people because of something they or someone they know experienced at the hands of someone of that race, ask them if I, who have suffered some violence and much abuse for being white in a non-white country, should therefore paint all black people with the same brush?
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    So when you say "Payback" what you mean is "an attack on an innocent third party based on his/her ethnicity due to a perceived injustice or mistreatment of someone of the same race as the actor (often years previously and not the actor himself/herself) and built up racism due to mass generalisations akin to "I got robbed by a black man, therefore I don't trust any of them'"?

    Yeah... I suppose I can get onboard with that.

    And for your "friends" who "hate" white people because of something they or someone they know experienced at the hands of someone of that race, ask them if I, who have suffered some violence and much abuse for being white in a non-white country, should therefore paint all black people with the same brush?
    1) Yes, in some cases. We don't know the details of all of these murder cases. But I am 100% sure there are people out there who feel aggrieved with white people because they have been victims of racist attacks themselves (and so have 'their people') and have pretty much ended up being racists themselves.

    2) Well I can ask them.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    So when you say "Payback" what you mean is "an attack on an innocent third party based on his/her ethnicity due to a perceived injustice or mistreatment of someone of the same race as the actor (often years previously and not the actor himself/herself) and built up racism due to mass generalisations akin to "I got robbed by a black man, therefore I don't trust any of them'"?

    Yeah... I suppose I can get onboard with that.

    And for your "friends" who "hate" white people because of something they or someone they know experienced at the hands of someone of that race, ask them if I, who have suffered some violence and much abuse for being white in a non-white country, should therefore paint all black people with the same brush?
    1) Yes, in some cases. We don't know the details of all of these murder cases. But I am 100% sure there are people out there who feel aggrieved with white people because they have been victims of racist attacks themselves (and so have 'their people') and have pretty much ended up being racists themselves.

    When Asians/Blacks first came to this country I doubt many of them were racist - so we have to ask who started it...

    Racism is sad...but definitley a problem around here (uk)

    2) Well I can ask them.
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    1) Yes, in some cases. We don't know the details of all of these murder cases. But I am 100% sure there are people out there who feel aggrieved with white people because they have been victims of racist attacks themselves (and so have 'their people') and have pretty much ended up being racists themselves.
    I am sure there are SOME. I am also sure that there are white racists who are such due to suffering racism at the hands of other ethnic groups.

    What's your point?

    This whole notion of "my people" and "your people" based on race is idiotic, and despite being essentially inherently racist most of the time, is somehow seen as acceptable.

    When Asians/Blacks first came to this country I doubt many of them were racist - so we have to ask who started it...
    You doubt they were? On what basis?

    Racism is sad...but definitley a problem around here (uk)
    relative to the rest of the world the UK's race problem is mild to say the least.

    2) Well I can ask them.
    And not one of them will have an answer that both avoids hypocrisy and concurrently doesnt condone such a position.
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    (Original post by Lawz-)
    I am sure there are SOME. I am also sure that there are white racists who are such due to suffering racism at the hands of other ethnic groups.

    What's your point?

    This whole notion of "my people" and "your people" based on race is idiotic, and despite being essentially inherently racist most of the time, is somehow seen as acceptable.



    You doubt they were? On what basis?



    relative to the rest of the world the UK's race problem is mild to say the least.



    And not one of them will have an answer that both avoids hypocrisy and concurrently doesnt condone such a position.
    I know some people who came here in the 70's (all nice people) they came to work in the factories - they were not racists but suffered some of the most blatant racists that you can imagine - I dout most of the were racists because they were in the extreme minority and even if they were I am sure they kept their feelings to themselves - perhaps they distrusted white people because they were 'different' but thats not really racism IMO.

    In regards to you r last comment - I never said humans were perfect!
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    I know some people who came here in the 70's (all nice people) they came to work in the factories - they were not racists but suffered some of the most blatant racists that you can imagine
    It's unlikely that that was common. I am from the west indies, where these people would have also come from. Racism there against whites, and hate for them, has been around for a long long time... in the 1970s it was in many ways at its height.

    I think the notion that the vast majority of blacks from the region came to the UK free of any taint of prejudice is a bit unrealistic given what I know about the region.

    - I dout most of the were racists because they were in the extreme minority
    What does being in a minority have to do with being racist? I thought it was precisely the seige mentality that is so common among minorities that engendered racism?

    and even if they were I am sure they kept their feelings to themselves
    Again, I doubt it.

    perhaps they distrusted white people because they were 'different' but thats not really racism IMO.
    I would be inclined to agree, though its not a common take on what racism is.
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    1) Yes, in some cases. We don't know the details of all of these murder cases. But I am 100% sure there are people out there who feel aggrieved with white people because they have been victims of racist attacks themselves (and so have 'their people') and have pretty much ended up being racists themselves.

    2) Well I can ask them.
    its exactly the same the other way around though. I went to an inner city comprehensive with loads of black kids and nearly all the white kids who entered it were good little PC robots and first, but at the end many had developed racist views because of the way we were treated there. Its a two way street, and anti-white racism is probably way more common nowadays. Only one of the blacks that I know is a victim of racism (and I have met quite a few), whilst I would be very hard pushed to find a white person who has not been threatened/attacked/verbally abused by a black
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    (Original post by Oswy)
    The ideology of racism is, sadly, infectious. Of course, many racist assaults against ethnic minorities are not reported because the police are institutionally racist.

    Racism, of any kind, is so fecking moronic.

    Oswy.
    Got any of those fact things to back up that assertion?

    :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by kam)
    Nearly half the victims from racial numbers being white, doesn't mean a lot.
    As someone already said, 90% of the population is white anyway, so it's not shocking to hear, just as it's not shocking to hear how many white people are in prison.
    You can look at it from the other side, and that interpretation is that members of 9% of the population are committing around 50% of all assaults with race as a motive. If indeed that was true, it would go against the assumption of many, and that is that only non-white people suffer racism, or that only white people are racist themselves.

    However, what is a racist motivation? Is simply attacking someone who is not the same ethnicity as you racist? I'd say not, but would bet those are automatically classed as racist attacks, because the police are seemingly so willing to see racism at every turn, anyone else ever feel like that?

    Anyways, Dave, stop chatting ****e. I'm certain many black people who get attacked do not get a spot in the newspaper, and that many of them, like white people who are attacked, only get a small one off article in the local rag that goes unnoticed.
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    How do you know they're all specifically racial murders? Does it actually say they're pure racist murders? It just says race played a key part.

    Maybe in the case of a white murdering a black there are more reasons - maybe race was one of them - but it could only be one factor - i.e maybe a drunken fight in the pub or somehting.

    How do you know for example a white wasn't racist to an asian who then retaliated?

    Statistics are not such a great help unlesss we have a little more info in this case IMO.
    Exactly, I feel like JoJo that quite often attacks are classed as racial in motivation simply because it is on someone of a differing ethnicity to the aggressor. How do we know when an attack is actually racist? You may pull a black man and a white man apart outside a pub, and either one may be screaming racist abuse at the other...this doesn't make them racist, or the fight racial...it just means they are pissed to high heaven and will use any leverage to hurt, annoy and intimidate the other.
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    (Original post by preparationH)
    its exactly the same the other way around though. I went to an inner city comprehensive with loads of black kids and nearly all the white kids who entered it were good little PC robots and first, but at the end many had developed racist views because of the way we were treated there. Its a two way street, and anti-white racism is probably way more common nowadays. Only one of the blacks that I know is a victim of racism (and I have met quite a few), whilst I would be very hard pushed to find a white person who has not been threatened/attacked/verbally abused by a black
    Well, my experience has been the opposite - the only time I have ever seen a white person beaten up by an asian in a race fight was when they were in/part of a gang.

    Aside from that I have seen tons of asians/blacks being sworn/beaten but never the other way (mind, none of these count as crime figures in the official records because they are never reporten) the actual figure for race crimes (both ways) is probably miles higher - some people are probably so sued to racist abuse that they don't even think much of it.

    I have seen first hand what can happen to minorities who live in a predominantly white area so I can def see why minorities stick together.
 
 
 
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