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    Mate, you haven't got a clue. You think Actuaries and Accountants just advise, or so it seems in your first post. You said because Actuaries offer specialised advice, only large firms can afford and need this service - This is simply not the case. I don't want to have an arguement on this, because quite frankly, you haven't got the knowledge on the subject to even reply with something decent back. End of.
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    (Original post by Singh_87)
    Mate, you haven't got a clue. You think Actuaries and Accountants just advise, or so it seems in your first post. You said because Actuaries offer specialised advice, only large firms can afford and need this service - This is simply not the case. I don't want to have an arguement on this, because quite frankly, you haven't got the knowledge on the subject to even reply with something decent back. End of.
    Well done, you've managed to drop it. You're learning fast.
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    Well done, you've managed to drop it. You're learning fast.
    The day I learn something of you will be the day I officially declare my life has a failure.

    OP, if you have some questions or anything on the topic, I'll be more than glad to help - Just PM me.
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    Let's face it, the only reason you dropped the argument was because I said you should in the previous post. And you and I both know it.

    But I'm a bit shocked that you got personal. I have never tried to belittle or bad-mouth you in any post, and have always maintained a certain level of respect. I suppose age isn't everything when it comes to maturity...
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    (Original post by Singh_87)
    Actuaries earn a ton more than Accountants.

    Trainee Actuaries are around the mid-twenty mark, whereas a freshly qualified Actuary is on £44k, give or take a grand.

    Senior Actuaries often make the £100k mark.
    Mid-twenties during training, and forty something after you have qualified. After a day with Deloitte today they are the same figures I heard they pay their accountants.
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    (Original post by x.narb.x)
    What about all the people who aren't made directors, what happens to them? I think 100k is a little on the optimistic side, too.

    The difference between a 35 and 60 hour week is a significant one as well, I'd rather be time rich and money poor than vice versa.

    Obviously setting up an accountancy practice isn't as easy as it sounds, else everyone would have done it, but its certainly the route I'll be taking I think - the appeal of being an entrepreneur as well as a professional is quite strong for me.
    Well generally, if you are competent i.e. you don't have a major **** up, you can expect to make director and principal, if not partner. 100K is the expected salary for directors, some make more, few make less.

    Speaking to actuaries, it seems that they are usually working 50-60 hours, whereas it would be exceptional to work more than 40-45 hours at a Big 4 firm.

    As to those who don't become directors, there is huge demand for newly qualified ACAs at banks in product control and tax, where a newly qualified ACA or sometimes ACCA (3 years postgraduate) will be on anywhere betwen 55-75 thousand. Bear in mind I am talking about London salaries, which can be considerably higher than the rest of the country.
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    (Original post by melquíades el gitano)
    it would be exceptional to work more than 40-45 hours at a Big 4 firm.
    I think you're a bit off track there. Contracted hours alone come to 42.5 hrs in most big 4 firms. You won't find people racing home at 5 - 5.30 during audit's busy season and when report deadlines are approaching in my TS department a 60-70 hour week is standard on a largish engagement. I know similar things can be said for Corp Fin + Restructuring. Sure, nobody is slaving away each day every day, but a 45+ hr week is far from exceptional nor would many consider 45hrs particularly strenuous. Tax guys may have a bit more regularity but I'm not overly sure.
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    (Original post by Singh_87)
    Omar, please stop telling people stuff that although may be true, doesn't provide evidence for the point you are trying to make. Accountants are required by every business, as it's a necessity to do the companies accounts. Every business does not however have actuarial requirements, hence the larger scope for Accountants. Do you actually know what an Actuary does? I really don't mean to be rude, but when you could influence someone's future, I think it is important to relay true information. This also goes to re-iterate the fact that you shouldn't solely base your life/career decisions on a forum....
    Ye, I wouldn't base my life or career decisions on a forum, im just looking on here for opinions and advice so that I would then know what sort of careers to discuss with my careers adviser at college, but I appreciate your concern . Oh and thanks for the offer about PMing you if I need any more help, I might take you up on that .

    About the accountancy "big 4 firms", how hard is it to get into these? What are the requirements (any certain universities, course or grade needed?)

    Also, im still curious as to the costs of starting up your own accountancy practice.

    Thanks alot for everyones responses.
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    I've already told you, rent/mortgage, subscription fees, salaries, stationery, computers/desks, tax, thats about it.
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    (Original post by Ö/\/\A® ©)
    Let's face it, the only reason you dropped the argument was because I said you should in the previous post. And you and I both know it.

    But I'm a bit shocked that you got personal. I have never tried to belittle or bad-mouth you in any post, and have always maintained a certain level of respect. I suppose age isn't everything when it comes to maturity...
    Lol, mate, you think I dropped the arguement because you told me? Umm, no. It was more along the reason that I have no interest in arguing with you what so ever, what am I going to achieve? Im pretty sure most, if not all, the other posters will agree that I am right, and you are wrong, so there is no point in me just arguing with you.

    I will try and explain it one time for your own benefit, if you still disagree, then you be on your way and I'll be on mine.

    Accountants are needed by every business, as they are essential for keeping track of a business's financial status and transactions. Therefore, a huge amount of accountants are needed, as there are a huge amount of business, you with me so far?

    Actuaries, on the other hand, employ mathematical techniques and models to solve certain problems, and use mathematical models for predicting certain events, so that a business can try and cater for as many situaitions as possible. The most common type of actuaries are for Insurance brokers, or are used in Pensions, etc.

    Now, I hope you can try and understand that because of what they do, there is a difference in demand for the two professionals, and hence it is easier for opening a practice for one, and more difficult for the other. It has got nothing, or very little, to do with the fact that large businesses can afford Actuaries, and small ones cant; as you said in the first post.
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    (Original post by astralcars)
    I think you're a bit off track there. Contracted hours alone come to 42.5 hrs in most big 4 firms. You won't find people racing home at 5 - 5.30 during audit's busy season and when report deadlines are approaching in my TS department a 60-70 hour week is standard on a largish engagement. I know similar things can be said for Corp Fin + Restructuring. Sure, nobody is slaving away each day every day, but a 45+ hr week is far from exceptional nor would many consider 45hrs particularly strenuous. Tax guys may have a bit more regularity but I'm not overly sure.
    Firstly, contracted hours are 35 at Deloitte and PwC, as those are the ones I can talk about with real knowledge.

    Secondly, the hours I'm talking about relate to tax, as thats where I work - call me a lazy *******:p: . You think I'm going to tell someone to work in audit? Yeah, audit departments wor 60-70 during busy season, but I'm trying to show the bes part of accountanct (jokes) so I'll talk about tax.

    Tax hours are pretty regular, depending on how hard you work, but as a rule above 45 hours is exceptional.
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    (Original post by Singh_87)
    Lol, mate, you think I dropped the arguement because you told me? Umm, no. It was more along the reason that I have no interest in arguing with you what so ever, what am I going to achieve? Im pretty sure most, if not all, the other posters will agree that I am right, and you are wrong, so there is no point in me just arguing with you.

    I will try and explain it one time for your own benefit, if you still disagree, then you be on your way and I'll be on mine.

    Accountants are needed by every business, as they are essential for keeping track of a business's financial status and transactions. Therefore, a huge amount of accountants are needed, as there are a huge amount of business, you with me so far?

    Actuaries, on the other hand, employ mathematical techniques and models to solve certain problems, and use mathematical models for predicting certain events, so that a business can try and cater for as many situaitions as possible. The most common type of actuaries are for Insurance brokers, or are used in Pensions, etc.

    Now, I hope you can try and understand that because of what they do, there is a difference in demand for the two professionals, and hence it is easier for opening a practice for one, and more difficult for the other. It has got nothing, or very little, to do with the fact that large businesses can afford Actuaries, and small ones cant; as you said in the first post.
    i also said several posts ago that its also because they dont need them. not just cos they cant afford them. How the hell could a corner shop possibly require the services of an actuary?

    I explained/agreed with evrything you just said ages ago. You should be able to tell that i was just trying to wind you up in that last post, and succesfully so - I couldn't really care less the reason why you dropped the argument.

    Do not please bother replying to this post, for your benefit and mine, we have better things to do than this, so IT IS OVER
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    I'll tell it how it is

    Actuaries obviously need to be smart at maths - on general they will probably get paid more - but there is less need for them.

    Accountants - obviously there is massive scope and a lot of career opportunities in different areas and pay can vary.

    With regards to hours I know a trainee in audit at PwC and days can often be 12 hours with a lot of travelling via car - regardless of contracted hours (this guy works at one office but gets sent all over the south - go figure)

    With regards to your own practice there are not much in the way of costs to set up - if you wanna be a one man band then I assume its fairly easy - if you want a whole practice with loads of staff then obviously its harder - but its all about reputation and trust - you would have to ask why someone would move accountants - i imagien its something businesses rarely do so you would need to spend a lot on marketing and steal clients through networking etc.

    I can imiagine that if you set up a practice you can get some other joker to manage it and chill out all day To be able to set up a practice you need to be qualified and have a couple of years experience (thats with the ACCA - I imagien similar for ACA) - so your look at 5-6 years after starting your first training job - but you will need to know your stuff (i.e be a master of somesort)
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    (Original post by jojo72)
    I'll tell it how it is

    Actuaries obviously need to be smart at maths - on general they will probably get paid more - but there is less need for them.

    Accountants - obviously there is massive scope and a lot of career opportunities in different areas and pay can vary.

    With regards to hours I know a trainee in audit at PwC and days can often be 12 hours with a lot of travelling via car - regardless of contracted hours (this guy works at one office but gets sent all over the south - go figure)

    With regards to your own practice there are not much in the way of costs to set up - if you wanna be a one man band then I assume its fairly easy - if you want a whole practice with loads of staff then obviously its harder - but its all about reputation and trust - you would have to ask why someone would move accountants - i imagien its something businesses rarely do so you would need to spend a lot on marketing and steal clients through networking etc.

    I can imiagine that if you set up a practice you can get some other joker to manage it and chill out all day To be able to set up a practice you need to be qualified and have a couple of years experience (thats with the ACCA - I imagien similar for ACA) - so your look at 5-6 years after starting your first training job - but you will need to know your stuff (i.e be a master of somesort)
    Worked an 18 hour day yesterday, including travelling time. To be fair though, this was this huge accident though on the M1 or something, which delayed things.
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    (Original post by Singh_87)
    Worked an 18 hour day yesterday, including travelling time. To be fair though, this was this huge accident though on the M1 or something, which delayed things.
    Was that just a one off though? I dont fancy working those hours every day, lol.
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    The hours for an average day are 9 - 5:30 pm, with an hour for lunch (The higher position you are, the less time you spend on lunch). However, when audit deadlines are approaching, you can expect to be working a couple more hours, if you are fairly important on the job. So instead of finishing at half 5, you might stay till 7, very rarely 8. But the hours don't get that bad.

    My 18 hour day was due to the fact I was out at 5 in the morning, finished at half 5 in the evening, but came home like half 10, due to the accident. Spent nearly 5 hours in a coach.....
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    (Original post by Singh_87)
    Actuaries earn a ton more than Accountants.

    Trainee Actuaries are around the mid-twenty mark, whereas a freshly qualified Actuary is on £44k, give or take a grand.

    Senior Actuaries often make the £100k mark.
    That overlooks the fact that you have to study longer and harder to be an actuary, so you'll be making money as an accountant before the actuary's done with his formulas.

    To the OP : you really should start your own business, given your apparent work ethic... "Where can I work least and get paid most [proportionally] ?"
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    Umm...to be honest, it more likely to the the other way round Johan. An Actuary, or to-be Actuary, can do an Actuarial Science degree, and complete his/her core exams, due to exemptions. They can then take an MSc, and complete the technical exams, and hence are an exam-qualified Actuary.

    Apart from flying start degree (PwC ), I don't think there are any fast track programmes that give many exemptions from the ACA/ACCA etc. Therefore, it is more likely to take longer for the Accountant to qualify, as they will have a degree plus 3 years = 6 years, whereas an Actuary can be done in 4
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    Hmmm...
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    Did I say anything wrong?
 
 
 
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