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Should private schools admit pupils on a finance-blind basis? watch

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    Should the top selective private schools be encouraged (or forced) to make admissions decisions with no knowledge of the applicant's ability to pay?

    It seems the abolition of private schools won't happen any time soon... might this be a decent compromise?
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    (Original post by William Turtle)
    Should the top selective private schools be encouraged (or forced) to make admissions decisions with no knowledge of the applicant's ability to pay?

    It seems the abolition of private schools won't happen any time soon... might this be a decent compromise?
    No.. The parents would still have to pay for the school fees + if they can't the student would have to be chucked from the school causing unnecessary drama.

    Most private schools offer some sort of bursary/scholarship to those who they think have the academic/art ability to go to the school and obviously by forcing private schools to not know of the applicants ability to pay these cannot be offered.


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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    No.. The parents would still have to pay for the school fees + if they can't the student would have to be chucked from the school causing unnecessary drama.

    Most private schools offer some sort of bursary/scholarship to those who they think have the academic/art ability to go to the school and obviously by forcing private schools to not know of the applicants ability to pay these cannot be offered.


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    You've missed my point - those students who they select, but cannot pay, receive a full/part bursary.

    Unfortunately, I can't remember which school it was (it was well-known), but I was on a website and they said they were working towards the system I suggested.
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    (Original post by William Turtle)
    You've missed my point - those students who they select, but cannot pay, receive a full/part bursary.

    Unfortunately, I can't remember which school it was (it was well-known), but I was on a website and they said they were working towards the system I suggested.
    Fee paying private schools still have to pay for most of what they do on tight budgets. It would be unreasonable for them to take on applicants without some knowledge of their families capability to pay. I can understand something like the school allowing say a fixed number of pupils every year to go there for free, but this shouldn't be enforced as every fee-paying private school has different financial circumstances. I would also argue bursaries are prevalent in some top private schools, but a lot of these schools don't allow the parents / the student to tell other people as otherwise to infuriate the other parents/students.

    So all in all.. Still no. An unnecessary class war


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    (Original post by William Turtle)
    Should the top selective private schools be encouraged (or forced) to make admissions decisions with no knowledge of the applicant's ability to pay?

    It seems the abolition of private schools won't happen any time soon... might this be a decent compromise?
    I suspect that is the way the schools with deep pockets and illustrious alumni lists will go.

    I think it is also the way that those schools that have become honeypots for Russian and Chinese oligarchs will go in order to keep up a reasonable British student base.

    It isn't realistic for most private schools that are struggling to fill their places. They have few endowments and struggle to fill their places with parents able to pay for teh cost of their own children's education let alone the cost of others.

    Other schools will effectively move into the state sector. At least two independent schools have done this and abolished fees.

    I think Christ's Hospital is needs blind at present and there may be others.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I suspect that is the way the schools with deep pockets and illustrious alumni lists will go.

    I think it is also the way that those schools that have become honeypots for Russian and Chinese oligarchs will go in order to keep up a reasonable British student base.

    It isn't realistic for most private schools that are struggling to fill their places. They have few endowments and struggle to fill their places with parents able to pay for teh cost of their own children's education let alone the cost of others.

    Other schools will effectively move into the state sector. At least two independent schools have done this and abolished fees.

    I think Christ's Hospital is needs blind at present and there may be others.
    Yeah, I had meant the richest schools really - it's obviously not achievable for 'bog-standard' private schools.

    Christ's Hospital is a bit of a special case, having been founded as a charity... also their uniform is nuts. Played a rugby match there (we were annihilated) and there were robes everywhere.
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    (Original post by William Turtle)
    Christ's Hospital is a bit of a special case, having been founded as a charity... also their uniform is nuts. Played a rugby match there (we were annihilated) and there were robes everywhere.
    They were all founded (and still are) bloody charities.

    Haven't you seen the King's Scholars at Eton, poor as church mice they are
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    But where does the money for poor students come from? And anyway, poor students won't do well on average because they are less likely to be as academically ready as a wealthier student regardless of innate talents.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    But where does the money for poor students come from?

    It can only come from three places:-

    Endowments

    Current pupils paying more than the actual cost of their education

    The government in the form of an assisted places or voucher scheme

    And anyway, poor students won't do well on average because they are less likely to be as academically ready as a wealthier student regardless of innate talents.
    There is no evidence of this at primary school level. We do have an evidence base for this with the assisted places scheme that ran between 1981 and 1997.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It can only come from three places:-

    Endowments

    Current pupils paying more than the actual cost of their education

    The government in the form of an assisted places or voucher scheme



    There is no evidence of this at primary school level. We do have an evidence base for this with the assisted places scheme that ran between 1981 and 1997.
    Where do endowments would come from?
    Why should a pupil (or a parent in this case) basically pay for someone's child private education?
    Why should the government fund this?

    1. Contradiction? It is a well known fact that poor kids start school with a lower amount of vocab than their wealthier counterparts. Lower amount of vocab at start means that they are already behind. And I haven't heard of them ever catching up on average. If anything things get worse when they start secondary.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Where do endowments would come from?

    In the case of Eton the original endowment was by Henry VIth. No doubt others have added to, and are still adding to it since then.

    Why should a pupil (or a parent in this case) basically pay for someone's child private education?
    Because that's the deal. If a school says the fees are say £11,000 per term but the true cost of providing the education is £10,000 then a parent has a choice, pay up or go elsewhere. It is exactly what you will be doing if you read an arts subject at any non-Oxbridge, non-London university. Your course won't cost £9,000. You are subsidising chemists.

    Why should the government fund this?
    This is what the the 1979 Conservative Manifesto said:-

    The Direct Grant schools, abolished by Labour, gave wider opportunities for bright children from modest backgrounds. The Direct Grant principle will therefore be restored with an Assisted Places Scheme. Less well-off parents will be able to claim part or all of the fees at certain schools from a special government fund.
    1. Contradiction? It is a well known fact that poor kids start school with a lower amount of vocab than their wealthier counterparts. Lower amount of vocab at start means that they are already behind. And I haven't heard of them ever catching up on average. If anything things get worse when they start secondary.
    I suggest then you speak to some young people of East European or East Asian backgrounds who had literally no English vocabulary at the start of primary school and doing perfectly well in mainstream education. I think your weasel words are "on average". By definition anyone putting their child forward for any scheme for admission to a private school cares about education.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    In the case of Eton the original endowment was by Henry VIth. No doubt others have added to, and are still adding to it since then.



    Because that's the deal. If a school says the fees are say £11,000 per term but the true cost of providing the education is £10,000 then a parent has a choice, pay up or go elsewhere. It is exactly what you will be doing if you read an arts subject at any non-Oxbridge, non-London university. Your course won't cost £9,000. You are subsidising chemists.



    This is what the the 1979 Conservative Manifesto said:-





    I suggest then you speak to some young people of East European or East Asian backgrounds who had literally no English vocabulary at the start of primary school and doing perfectly well in mainstream education. I think your weasel words are "on average". By definition anyone putting their child forward for any scheme for admission to a private school cares about education.
    Fair enough. But I guess there is only so many poor students they can accept if the students are not paying. Oddly enough, I guess you might see more mediocre wealthy students than bright poor students in private schools imo because someone has to pay. Also, imo good part of the prestige of private schools is mingling with others of similar wealth. So let us see if private schools embrace your idea.

    EAL students are still below non-EAL students when it comes to academic achievement. I got a lecture on exactly that topic last term. They do some amazing progress but not enough to catch up with their peers "on average".
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    So let us see if private schools embrace your idea.
    It wasn't an idea from me, but an explanation.

    Most private schools embraced the assisted places scheme very heavily.

    The exception was the SDP supporting head of Westminster, Dr. Rae.
 
 
 
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