David Cameron's EU reforms collapse-Merkel says immigration cannot be questioned Watch

Ace123
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...in-the-EU.html

Surely now David Cameron must admit his EU reforms are not going to happen and just call for a 2015 referendum? Angela Merkel says immigration cannot be questioned in anyway! so much for democracy

Thoughts? are his reforms now dead considering all EU nations must agree, will he stick to the reform election line?
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by Ace123)
will he stick to the reform election line?
Almost certainly.
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DorianGrayism
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Ok. Everyone knew this was going to happen so what exactly has changed?
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EtonianMagnate
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we should be able to live + work where we wanna.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Ace123)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...in-the-EU.html

Surely now David Cameron must admit his EU reforms are not going to happen and just call for a 2015 referendum? Angela Merkel says immigration cannot be questioned in anyway! so much for democracy

Thoughts? are his reforms now dead considering all EU nations must agree, will he stick to the reform election line?
Immigration is not the only thing he wants to reform and we already knew this.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Immigration is not the only thing he wants to reform and we already knew this.
But immigration is the biggy isn't it? That's the one UKIP do well on.
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Ace123
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Immigration is not the only thing he wants to reform and we already knew this.
there are many areas that need reform e.g. fishing, EU fees, CAP, business reg but he is unlikely to get any of those either as all 28 nations must agree plus immigration is the big issue and with no significant reform and limits to immigration he will achive nothing
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democracyforum
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(Original post by Ace123)
?

What reform ?

1) deport unemployed migrants
2) deport migrants on benefits
3) don't give housing and benefits to immigrants who came here last week
4) no to turkey and albania joining the EU, morocco too.
5) a simple reduction in immigration

What they must understand is we are an island, therefore we are not used to crossing the border for dinner like you can do in mainland europe.

Anyway,


If these laws cannot be passed, we must leave the EU.

Finally. why is Germany telling Britain what to do ? The effrontery is unbelievable.
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billydisco
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(Original post by EtonianMagnate)
we should be able to live + work where we wanna.
and what if every person wanted to live in the same country?

Idiot
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Ace123
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After Merkel said immigration cannot even be discussed she has now said that benefits for immigrants cannot be limited either, so immigrants will be allowe full benefits

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/550...enefit-tourism
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DiddyDec01
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(Original post by Ace123)
there are many areas that need reform e.g. fishing, EU fees, CAP, business reg but he is unlikely to get any of those either as all 28 nations must agree plus immigration is the big issue and with no significant reform and limits to immigration he will achive nothing
CAP is already being reformed.
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EtonianMagnate
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(Original post by billydisco)
and what if every person wanted to live in the same country?
Ridiculous scenario.

But since you asked, I suppose people would start to migrate en masse to that country, and then suddenly find that they wanted to go back to the glorious empty space that suddenly appeared behind them upon finding everyone piled up on top of one another.

Or maybe that particular country would suddenly have the income and impetus to build more infrastructure to accommodate them.

Or maybe we should look at what actually happens... people largely stay where they are, with a relatively minor net migration towards more prosperous areas.

(Original post by billydisco)
Idiot
Oh noes.
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billydisco
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(Original post by EtonianMagnate)
Ridiculous scenario.

But since you asked, I suppose people would start to migrate en masse to that country, and then suddenly find that they wanted to go back to the glorious empty space that suddenly appeared behind them upon finding everyone piled up on top of one another.

Or maybe that particular country would suddenly have the income and impetus to build more infrastructure to accommodate them.

Or maybe we should look at what actually happens... people largely stay where they are, with a relatively minor net migration towards more prosperous areas.



Oh noes.
How is it a ridiculous scenario? Have you ever seen the border between Mexico and the US?

You even admit people will move to more-desirable countries. The UK has admitted approximately 2 million+ immigrants since 2004..... would you say our country is better now than it was in 2004? What have we gained from this? Nothing.
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HootersGalore
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(Original post by billydisco)
How is it a ridiculous scenario? Have you ever seen the border between Mexico and the US?
Are you seriously suggesting that "everyone" in Mexico wants to live in the US?

Anyway, the problems exist precisely because there is a huge difference in the prospects of those either side of the border. This would equalise if the borders were opened.

(Original post by billydisco)
You even admit people will move to more-desirable countries. The UK has admitted approximately 2 million+ immigrants since 2004..... would you say our country is better now than it was in 2004? What have we gained from this? Nothing.
2 million ain't all that much. We have room. We have gained much (billions) in terms of money, but those in power have failed to invest that extra income in infrastructure so we have problems today as a result of the extra demand.
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billydisco
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(Original post by HootersGalore)
Anyway, the problems exist precisely because there is a huge difference in the prospects of those either side of the border. This would equalise if the borders were opened.
Are you saying Mexico would magically become as prosperous as the US?


(Original post by HootersGalore)
2 million ain't all that much. We have room.
Its another city the size of Birmingham mate......

(Original post by HootersGalore)
We have gained much (billions) in terms of money, but those in power have failed to invest that extra income in infrastructure so we have problems today as a result of the extra demand.
Our GDP per capita adjusted for inflation has not increased....... so what was the point?
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billydisco
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(Original post by Onde)
I think that people in other countries should admit when they are beaten in the Lucky Dip of Life and stay put! It just isn't cricket for them to spoil things for everybody else.
Or they could ask themselves why their own country is crap?
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HootersGalore
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(Original post by billydisco)
Its another city the size of Birmingham mate......
Or in less scary terms, a 3.22% increase over 10 years, using your numbers.
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billydisco
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(Original post by Onde)
The figures here: http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...growth-economy (and elsewhere) suggest that between the beginning of 2004 and now, GDP per capita HAS actually had a net increase, even taking into account the recession.

Between the first quarter of 2004 and the third quarter of 2013, overall GDP increased 8.76%.

This is higher than the net population increase in that time.

Historically also, economic growth has been double that of population growth. If a fair assessment was to be made, the period covering a full economic cycle should be considered, but even so, your view doesn't hold up.

A case can be made for better social integration for immigrants and for better distribution of government budgets to the hardest pressed areas, sure. But the polling shows that those who complain most about immigrants taking their jobs etc. tend to come from areas where the proportion of immigrants is less than the average.
Can you read your own stats?

In 2012 GDP per capita (millions???) adjusted for inflation was 5,698
In 2004 GDP per capita (millions???) adjusted for inflation was 5,623

They are the same number...... if I were to graph this it would be a flat line.....

I am failing to see the economic benefit here?
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billydisco
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(Original post by Onde)
You said between 2004 and NOW, not 2012.

If the overall inflation adjusted GDP figure has increased at a faster rate between 2004 Q1 and 2013 Q3 than the rate of population growth, then logically, the inflation adjusted per capita figure has also increased.
????

8 years, 2 million immigrants+ driving up house prices, congesting schools/hospitals, using transport and no economic growth..........
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