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Poland has a similar foreign policy to France and Britain, yet... Watch

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    It's terrorism threat is currently zero (active in both Iraq and Afghanistan). Furthermore France and Britain responded to mass immigration with polar opposite policies (secularism and multiculturalism respectively), yet both have an Islamism problem. Does this not suggest that it is mass immigration itself that is the problem?
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    You raise a valid point. Poland does not have a large Muslim community and does not suffer from islamic terrorism.

    It should also be noted that nations that have not been involved in Iraq or Afghanistan but have a large muslum population such as Kenya, Nigeria, the Phillipines, Indonesia etc have a problem.

    This debate though should also acknowledge that the vast majority of mums ons are law abiding Citiziens who are equally sickened by these recent issues.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    the vast majority of mums ons are law abiding Citiziens who are equally sickened by these recent issues.
    Most are indeed law abiding; we can keep saying this till we are blue in the face... but the debate still has to be had (it cannot be shut down anymore).

    Also the second part is unfortunately contentious, support for ISIS is worrying high - 1 in 7 of all youth in this country the last poll found.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014...ses-with-isis/
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Most are indeed law abiding; we can keep saying this till we are blue in the face... but the debate still has to be had (it cannot be shut down anymore).

    Also the second part is unfortunately contentious, support for ISIS is worrying high - 1 in 7 of all youth in this country the last poll found.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014...ses-with-isis/
    Disaffected youth latch onto idiotic behaviour.

    Nothing new here. Sadly pur Pakistani community (and that's where most of the Muslims are) haven't done to gods a job at integrating and aren't exactly seen by many as being hard working and diligent. Therefore they get left behind in the job market compared to the Asian or indian community.

    I genuinely thinly though that we're starting to see the Muslim community turn on these nutters now.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    It's terrorism threat is currently zero (active in both Iraq and Afghanistan). Furthermore France and Britain responded to mass immigration with polar opposite policies (secularism and multiculturalism respectively), yet both have an Islamism problem. Does this not suggest that it is mass immigration itself that is the problem?
    Secularism only exists in theory in French suburbs. In fact, it's an even worse situation; th police doesn't go in there anymore. Prisons are especially organised by religious communities.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Disaffected youth latch onto idiotic behaviour.

    Nothing new here. Sadly pur Pakistani community (and that's where most of the Muslims are) haven't done to gods a job at integrating and aren't exactly seen by many as being hard working and diligent. Therefore they get left behind in the job market compared to the Asian or indian community.

    I genuinely thinly though that we're starting to see the Muslim community turn on these nutters now.
    Idiotic behavior is children playing knock down ginger.

    Decapitating soldiers, raping and violently abusing children, and blowing yourselves up on packed commuter trains is something quite different.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Idiotic behavior is children playing knock down ginger.

    Decapitating soldiers, raping and violently abusing children, and blowing yourselves up on packed commuter trains is something quite different.
    Not in this case. Idiotic behaviour is the 1 in 7 brotiah Muslim youth supporting people they don't know doing what you've described.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    It's terrorism threat is currently zero (active in both Iraq and Afghanistan). Furthermore France and Britain responded to mass immigration with polar opposite policies (secularism and multiculturalism respectively), yet both have an Islamism problem. Does this not suggest that it is mass immigration itself that is the problem?
    Poland has a big problem with neo-Nazi and fascist/nationalist groups.

    You're simply exchanged the threat of odd petty terrorism like a shoot-up, for another issue which is just as bad and dangerous for a society, it simply doesn't make headlines as well I guess.

    Let's remember that nothing is stopping the BNP from doing the same thing, doesn't make all Brits as dangerous 'enemies within'.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Poland has a big problem with neo-Nazi and fascist/nationalist groups.

    You're simply exchanged the threat of odd petty terrorism like a shoot-up, for another issue which is just as bad and dangerous for a society, it simply doesn't make headlines as well I guess.

    Let's remember that nothing is stopping the BNP from doing the same thing, doesn't make all Brits as dangerous 'enemies within'.
    I have no idea what you are trying to say, other than being an apologist for Islamic terrorism. And calling the massacre of 12 journalists and policemen 'petty'.
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    No offence to any Poles on here, but, whilst there's no denying its economic clout and importance in the EU, when it comes to international affairs and reputation Poland is not on the same level as the UK and France. The number of troops they contributed to Iraq and Afghanistan numbered in the thousands but did not match the British and French troop numbers. Furthermore France is still committed to fighting Islamists in Mali, Somalia/Djibouti, and Syria, and doesn't Britain now have jets bombing Syria too...? (I forget how that panned out)

    Then there's the historical element to it. France and Britain, as former colonial powers, both have a very negative reputation for meddling in Arab affairs, not least for the creation of Israel. Iran often singles out Britain rather than the US for criticism because of past British imperial activity in that region. To go back even further, we have a statue of Richard the Lionheart, a famous crusader against Islam, right outside Parliament... that probably doesn't help either... and the French practically invented crusading to the Holy Land.

    Finally I suppose I'd say that if, as a terrorist, you're pitching your plan to your leaders... well if you say you're attacking Krackow you're going to get blank faces, if you say Oxford or Manchester they'll start booking you a plane ticket.
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    I'd just like to point out that our foreign policy should not be dictated by Islamists. If they fight back, we shouldn't cower away, we should defeat them.

    In other words, I'm sceptical of two claims. I'm sceptical that Islamists attack the US, UK and France for their foreign interventions (rather than their kuffar), and furthermore I'm sceptical that even if this were the case, it should have any bearing on our foreign policy, any more than the German plan to invade Britain should have dictated British policy against Germany.

    Remember that the jihad operates internationally and its targets are innocent civilians everywhere. It may have hit the headlines that France suffered this awful attack, and yes, it is more significant when it occurs in the free world, but who mourns for the tens to hundreds of innocents killed every day in parts of Africa and South Asia by the many jihadist groups operating there? It might seem tempting to some in the West to withdraw from all conflicts and let the barbarians "kill each other" so-to-speak, but this depraved attitude is really a call for surrender. It is saying "let the innocents be killed, then we can say we played no part in their deaths". Tempting? Maybe. Moral? Certainly not.
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    (Original post by B-FJL3)
    No offence to any Poles on here, but, whilst there's no denying its economic clout and importance in the EU, when it comes to international affairs and reputation Poland is not on the same level as the UK and France. The number of troops they contributed to Iraq and Afghanistan numbered in the thousands but did not match the British and French troop numbers. Furthermore France is still committed to fighting Islamists in Mali, Somalia/Djibouti, and Syria, and doesn't Britain now have jets bombing Syria too...? (I forget how that panned out)

    Then there's the historical element to it. France and Britain, as former colonial powers, both have a very negative reputation for meddling in Arab affairs, not least for the creation of Israel. Iran often singles out Britain rather than the US for criticism because of past British imperial activity in that region. To go back even further, we have a statue of Richard the Lionheart, a famous crusader against Islam, right outside Parliament... that probably doesn't help either... and the French practically invented crusading to the Holy Land.

    Finally I suppose I'd say that if, as a terrorist, you're pitching your plan to your leaders... well if you say you're attacking Krackow you're going to get blank faces, if you say Oxford or Manchester they'll start booking you a plane ticket.
    Pretty much this . Poland is hardly a power house

    Extremists are also attacking Muslim countries as well - they target those who are more "prominent" I imagine there's less Polish soldiers than say.... even Spain....

    France and the UK are big powers. Poland is not. Why attack a small power? Why not concentrate efforts on the big guys?
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    I have no idea what you are trying to say, other than being an apologist for Islamic terrorism. And calling the massacre of 12 journalists and policemen 'petty'.
    I'm saying the monkey man predictable response of "dem mooslamics and their ray gunz not 'ere innit get em aaaaaut" isn't helpful. Also in the grand scheme of things it was petty. It was a few guys who got some guns and shot up a very easy defenseless target. Their no actual danger to western civilization.
    Half the media storm over this is the reason why these people think what they do works.

    But you keep calling me an 'apologist' as if it changes anything.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    I'm saying the monkey man predictable response of "dem mooslamics and their ray gunz not 'ere innit get em aaaaaut" isn't helpful. Also in the grand scheme of things it was petty. It was a few guys who got some guns and shot up a very easy defenseless target. Their no actual danger to western civilization.
    Half the media storm over this is the reason why these people think what they do works.

    But you keep calling me an 'apologist' as if it changes anything.
    The scale and pace of the demographic change is a straightforward threat to Western civilization. Muslims are not Western, in general they dislike Western civilization and are suspicious and hostile towards it and therefore do not wish to integrate into it and never will do. Instead they regard it as totally alien and as a threat to themselves. Demographics is therefore a threat.

    I'm just going to post this again, because it is so necessary.



    And quote this again:

    Our sufferings today are the prelude of those you, Europeans and Western Christians, will also suffer in the near future. I lost my diocese. The physical setting of my apostolate has been occupied by Islamic radicals who want us converted or dead. But my community is still alive.

    Please, try to understand us. Your liberal and democratic principles are worth nothing here. You must consider again our reality in the Middle East, because you are welcoming in your countries an ever growing number of Muslims. Also you are in danger. You must take strong and courageous decisions, even at the cost of contradicting your principles. You think all men are equal, but that is not true: Islam does not say that all men are equal. Your values are not their values. If you do not understand this soon enough, you will become the victims of the enemy you have welcomed in your home.

    Archbishop Amel Nona
    Chaldean Catholic Archeparch of Mosul, now exiled in Erbil
    Corriere della Sera
    August 9, 2014
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    It's terrorism threat is currently zero (active in both Iraq and Afghanistan). Furthermore France and Britain responded to mass immigration with polar opposite policies (secularism and multiculturalism respectively), yet both have an Islamism problem. Does this not suggest that it is mass immigration itself that is the problem?
    A lot of terrorist attacks are home grown so its natural that there's a correlation with Islamic immigration. Further, all European countries have very active intelligence services, I remember reading once that the Swiss intelligence stopped 19 potential attacks in a year. Poland is also largely unimportant in a global context whereas France, the UK and the US currently form a tripod in foreign policy in the Middle East.

    Those who think that leaving alone would help us should look at innocent countries like Mali and Nigeria. Islamists don't oppose our foreign policy, they oppose our very way of life.
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    I'm from Poland myself- and the reason there are no terrorist attacks here is- that it is hardly possible to meet a Muslim here, as well as other immigrants. There are very few of them. Maybe in Warsaw you can meet one, but in smaller cities you cannot.
    What is more, what someone of you has already said, Poland isn't so important as France or Britain. It is perceived as a country that actually doesn't matter in most of international affairs. The result of it is that we don't seem as "threatening" to Muslims.
    Poland is trying hardly to catch up and be as important as France or Britain, but there's still a long way for us to achieve it- because as a former communist country we are delayed a bit.
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    (Original post by johannalepakko)
    I'm from Poland myself- and the reason there are no terrorist attacks here is- that it is hardly possible to meet a Muslim here, as well as other immigrants. There are very few of them. Maybe in Warsaw you can meet one, but in smaller cities you cannot.
    What is more, what someone of you has already said, Poland isn't so important as France or Britain. It is perceived as a country that actually doesn't matter in most of international affairs. The result of it is that we don't seem as "threatening" to Muslims.
    Poland is trying hardly to catch up and be as important as France or Britain, but there's still a long way for us to achieve it- because as a former communist country we are delayed a bit.
    Regarding your later paragraph it's your small (ish) population that will hold you back in that regard. Given your decent economic management though, you will reach comparable per capita wealth at some point i'm sure.
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    I suppose if were going to have this debate we should first describe the type of terrorism that were talking about. A lot of people seem to forget that domestic terrorism still occurs in a lot of countries including the US. So would you be so kind as to define the exact definition that you would like used?

    Also you seem to be suggesting that Mass Immigration is the problem particularly of people of Islamic faith is the cause of the problems am I right?

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    Actually, it may not be widely known in UK, Poland has (or actually had) a pretty much indigenous Muslim population: Tatars. Came in the middle ages, stayed in Polish- Lithuanian Commonwealth, survived pretty much till 2nd world war. Muslim yet highly integrated: instead of celebrating Fridays they celebrate Sundays, they are not averse to alcohol, they were always one of the best military forces fighting for the (christian) King. TBH that should be an example how different groups can integrate into the society. To make things worse, there is a lot of tension between local Tatars and newcomming muslims, mostly from Arabic countries.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    I have no idea what you are trying to say, other than being an apologist for Islamic terrorism. And calling the massacre of 12 journalists and policemen 'petty'.
    No I'm saying don;t be an apologist for skinheads and petty xenophobia. 4 muslims out of the countless thousands in France shot up people. The rest did not. Most have never fired a gun or committed a violent crime.

    If we're going to inflate an act of violence as representing a mortal threat to the west, we might as well just drone-strike ourselves because 4 fundamentalists versus the uncounted violent crimes committed by people not in the name of Islam far outweigh that.


    I couldn;t care less for Islam, I DO however care about not being a tool. Stay classy.
 
 
 
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