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Satirism, provocation, and hatred.

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Original post by Veggiechic6
What makes islam special?


The violence it gives out to those who dare challenge it
While freedom of speech is not unfettered right, it must be held in the highest regard and any restrictions upon it must undergo highest level of scrutiny, imposed where the speech is the action threatening public safety and be as narrowly construed as possible. Classic example is yelling fire in crowded theatre: here the speech itself is the action which causes panic and death whereas yelling fire in relatively open field is fine.

Another caveat is criticism of ideas or views, especially when such ideas have public impact (ie. there are political groups, public speeches or lobbies for the idea or its aspect): under no circumstances should such criticism be prohibited. If you cant stand your views mocked, dont put it in the public sphere or else look away and stuff your fingers in ears when someone criticises it. Foundation of democracy is free and open sharing and discourse of ideas; where one side can present their ideas without the idea being criticized the system fails - no matter what form such criticisms takes or validity of the criticism itself.
Original post by PopaPork
The violence it gives out to those who dare challenge it
Exactly. And should we roll over and allow these threats to dictate what we can and cannot say? Should we forever tread on eggshells for fear of 'upsetting' these people? If people are afraid to speak out because of these attacks, then the extremists have won. It's similar to how North Korea threatened the US because of that film about their leader, and Obama rightly said that we 'cannot have a society in which some dictator some place can start imposing censorship here.' It's a slippery slope if people allow the threat of idiotic reactions to dictate their actions.
Original post by Veggiechic6
Exactly. And should we roll over and allow these threats to dictate what we can and cannot say? Should we forever tread on eggshells for fear of 'upsetting' these people? If people are afraid to speak out because of these attacks, then the extremists have won. It's similar to how North Korea threatened the US because of that film about their leader, and Obama rightly said that we 'cannot have a society in which some dictator some place can start imposing censorship here.' It's a slippery slope if people allow the threat of idiotic reactions to dictate their actions.


No we shouldn't

and thankfully this indecent has produced more satire and ridicule and it will continue over the next few months.

I do see this as a turning point though so it will be interesting watching how this develops
Reply 24
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Simes
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Original post by Veggiechic6
What makes Islam special?
Fear of the unknown.

The ability to play a race card, which sometimes gets used.

The fear of violence, sometimes.


I will stand and argue with Mormons and JWs and the like because when they approach me and try to force their opinions on me, I know enough about Christianity to rip them to shreds. They also tend to be meek and not intimidating.

When I was approached en masse at college in North London by the gang of Moslem lads in the main refectory and told we English boys were not welcome in there, I did not feel empowered to object. On my second day I tried to go in and was slapped round the face and physically pushed out. Consequently, the main refectory was their private enclave for the two years I was there.

(Now I'm older and wiser and wouldn't take that treatment, but I was young then and on my own and everyone else had to take it too.)

Likewise when stopped by a group of lads in a metro shop in London at the booze section and told I'm not allowed to buy alcohol because it is a Moslem area, I tried to argue but the threat of violence was all to clear. The staff weren't getting involved, that was for sure.


I've never been on the receiving end of abuse from Jews; I occasionally went to Golders Green shops and restaurants and it was all terribly civilised.


The various Chinatowns in the UK can be scary at certain times; I wouldn't dare get lippy in one of them. Ditto any Irish pub in London when the IRA were still active: that was never clever.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Simes
With machine guns and kill bystanders too?

So if you slag my wife off, and thereby bring disrespect on me and my family, I'll burn your house down in the middle of the night and kill your entire family. That OK too?


Did I say it was okay, or condone in any way what these people did? No.

What I said was, even if you have a right to free speech, you still have to act responsibly.

If you then say something designed to be deliberately provocative you have to accept that you played some part in that and act accordingly.
Reply 26
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19
Original post by Simes

The various Chinatowns in the UK can be scary at certain times; I wouldn't dare get lippy in one of them.

I know, right.

Mess with them and they'll totally kill you on Call of Duty.
The cartoonists may have drawn nasty things, but the only people responsible for killing people were the people who killed people.
I think we should first have a look at what we desire to achieve with criticism and then chose a form a of expressing it cleverly. Freedom of speech should be ultimate, but mocking somebody never wins an argument nor is it a proper form of informing or prevention.
Original post by mojojojo101
Did I say it was okay, or condone in any way what these people did? No.

What I said was, even if you have a right to free speech, you still have to act responsibly.

If you then say something designed to be deliberately provocative you have to accept that you played some part in that and act accordingly.
Exactly. What fantasy world are people living in where, in the face of offensive remarks, actions or gestures, people remain completely passive?
Reply 30
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Simes
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Original post by saywhatm8
What fantasy world are people living in where, in the face of offensive remarks, actions or gestures, people remain completely passive?
Christians turning the other cheek.

Ghandi promoting non-violent protest.
Original post by Simes
Christians turning the other cheek.
To what?

Ghandi promoting non-violent protest.
Who is noted for his unusual response; he is clearly not representative of what the majority of society would do.

How often do you see people offensively 'trolling' in real life? Why do you think they only behave that way when they know the recipient can't reach them?

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