Are Poles a better calibre of European?

I read in the paper a few days ago that the number 2 degree course by number of students who entered this year in the UK was Design Studies.

I think unemployment for Brits is a problem as more are getting educated to degree level, but in subjects that are not respected by many graduate employers. So they end up without graduate jobs, but they are unwilling to take jobs that don't require a degree.

Eastern Europeans and other immigrants, including some who have degrees, will come to the UK and do minimum wage and other jobs that the increasingly educated--although perhaps not appropriately educated--British population will not.

I read in the paper a few days ago that the number 2 degree course by number of students who entered this year in the UK was Design Studies.

I think unemployment for Brits is a problem as more are getting educated to degree level, but in subjects that are not respected by many graduate employers. So they end up without graduate jobs, but they are unwilling to take jobs that don't require a degree.

Eastern Europeans and other immigrants, including some who have degrees, will come to the UK and do minimum wage and other jobs that the increasingly educated--although perhaps not appropriately educated--British population will not.

I read in the paper a few days ago that the number 2 degree course by number of students who entered this year in the UK was Design Studies.

I think unemployment for Brits is a problem as more are getting educated to degree level, but in subjects that are not respected by many graduate employers. So they end up without graduate jobs, but they are unwilling to take jobs that don't require a degree.

Eastern Europeans and other immigrants, including some who have degrees, will come to the UK and do minimum wage and other jobs that the increasingly educated--although perhaps not appropriately educated--British population will not.

You may be right but I think you need to be a bit less speculative here - can you actually show that a recent surge in immigration is not the cause of an uptick in unemployment but rather results from an expanding benefit trap.

Forgive me but one seems more obvious than the other.

Less speculative? Sir, i am an economist (of sorts)! I could never do that!

Anyway, serious now. The number of Poles claiming unemployment benefit is only a matter of a few hundred (ITV, Ch4 and BBC news) so wouldn't appear on the claimant count. We have no other reason to suggest that there is a massive number of unemployed Poles.

"Detailed, district-level studies led by Jonathan Portes, chief economist at the Department for Work and Pensions, show that the increase in non-migrant unemployment that can be attributed to a 1 per cent increase in the A8 workforce is a statistically insignificant 0.01 per cent." (From the Times)

I'd agree with your first statement without qualms.

I'm puzzled by Mr.Portes' report though. He attributes an uptick of 0.01% to immigration and yet the ILO, as I stated earlier, declares an increase in unemployment of 0.7% Surely we're not sugesting that 0.69% of the rise in unemployment is attributable to natives voluntarily going on the dole and opting for the "benefit trap" are we?

If, as the ILO have stated, there were 1,677,000 unemployed (in the three months to June 2006) and this figure represents a rise of 0.7% then unemployment has risen 11657 in a year - agreed? If what Mr.Portes claims is true then 11490 (11657/0.7x0.69) are cases of people volunteering unemployment and only 167 represent jobs lost to foreign workers. Is that right?

The benefit trap was only part of the problem. I thought I had already said that; forgive me if I havn't, there are multiple threads where I'm arguing practically the same thing, I may be loosing track!

We also have to take into account that there has been a drop in inactivity, which won't immediately be taken into employment.

For once you make a good point SL. Is "design studies" really # 2?

Sadly so http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6071026.stm
The top 10 includes other sterling academic powerhouses like business studies, sports science, and psychology

Regardless, you'd agree with my calculation based on the ILO statistics and Mr.Portes' claims: that only 167 jobs were lost to foreign workers? Do you accept my calculation is correct and do you consider the answer realistic?

Well, the latest stats are that unemployment is up 276000 over the year. Making it 276 people who lost their jobs to foreign workers. Yes, I would consider that realistic.

276,000? Are you sure about that? So the ILO's stats are off my about 265,000? That doesn't fill me with much confidence!

Besides if an increase of 11657 results in 167 losing their jobs to foreign workers (as I have demonstrated) then a simple pro-rata exercise leads me to approximate that an increase of 276000 results in 2985 people losing their jobs to foreign workers.

Going back to the ILO's report (for what it is worth) if we now have 1,677,000unemployed and this number is a result of an increase of 276,000 over the last year then that translates to a jump in unemployment of 19.7% in the last year! To be honest I find your sources' numbers rather unbelievable but, if they are true, then they really don't advance a very powerful argument in support of more immigration.

Sadly so http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6071026.stm
The top 10 includes other sterling academic powerhouses like business studies, sports science, and psychology

Actually, for what its worth I think the Poles are of a better calibre than Romanians and Bulgarians anyway. Poland, after all, once had one of the largest empires in European history (Moscow was once in Poland) and I think I'm right in saying, the earliest written constitution. Clearly a far more advanced nation.

I've never been to Bulgaria but I have been to Poland and to Romania. Poland is quite nice, clean, and has a civilized feeling about it, whereas Romania is a festering flea pit full of filthy thieving gipsies.

You are far too over the line with this extreme statement! You've probably been there just on holiday and you've seen just a tiny dot of what this country actually is. Your words make ALL Romanians sound like thieves and gypsies, which is certainly not the case!

Poles are lovely people. Hard working, damn good looking, intelligent, etc.

Does it matter when? It still YOUR opinion. And why?