**** it! I am going to defend Islam!

I never said you said... -this is going to be one of those arguments. (It is the desire for Christians to be sinless)

Have you backed your claims up with evidence? no... you simply stated it as a fact.

I grew up as a Christian, I am mostly speaking from experience.

Heuh, maybe they are fanatics- "a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause."

But I wouldn't be able to call them extremists. -"a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action."

As most deny the existence of scriptures that 'advocate violent, illegal or extreme action' in the Qu'ran or just ignore them.



Yeah, I suppose if they were a Catholic, they can't exactly see their own book in the same light as they do with Islam haha (Even though it is practically the same)

But that still doesn't make the argument any more valid.

Thank you! Usually Muslims don't want to debate.

Could you answer me this? (and this is for any religious person, not only those of Islam)

Why do you choose to live your life based of a doctrine that have many evil elements? All religions have elements of slaughter, sexism, racism, ect. Why do you not choose to live, quite simply, a moral life, with a love of God that does not require you to endorse such foul things?

I don't need to back up my claims because I didn't make an outrageous claim like you did. I just said that there are Jews and Christians who take their religion seriously which is feasible. You implied the majority don't which goes against the norm and doesn't seem feasible so I can ask you for proof.

My argument is just my opinion and you don't have to agree with it.

That's rather subjective tbh!

IMO a lot of Christians are hypocrites. I don't think hypocrites take their morals/conduct very seriously.

Besides even if they do mess up they can always "repent" and ask forgiveness...

Yeah, you're right to an extent but we have to give these people we have our suspicions about the benefit of the doubt because we cannot prove that every single person in the group of people who don't take their religion seriously, aren't taking it seriously. If we see one person not following their religion like they should be then we say they are not a serious follower. It is just so hard to prove that all the people who don't follow their religion properly aren't following their religion properly. Its not like these people are going to admit it. LOL

I appreciate the way you asked the question. You weren't having a go... So thank you for that

In not sure what you mean by evil elements... But if you mean sexism... Islam was the first system to give women rights... Like inheritance... It gave women a chance to do business, to teach... It actually gave women a status higher than men.. For example someone asked the Prophet... Who should I be good to (keep good relations with)... He replied your mother... The man asked a further two times and was given the same reply... Only the fourth time did the Prophet say your father... There are also many sayings in which the Prophet said to raise your daughters well... Of one of you has a daughter and he raises her with love and affection, educates her and then gets her married... He will enter paradise... And there are many other sayings but they aren't coming to my head now... So... Yeah...

As for killing... Islam brought ethics into war... Do not kill civilians... So not kill old people... Do not kill people in the temples... Or those who have given up a worldly life... Do not kill the farmer... Do not destroy crops and plants and trees that give fruits... And do not kill someone who inclined towards peace... Only in defence is fighting allowed... To die fighting for your property your family your possessions your faith, your house, your land is considered the highest death and God gives a great reward... Almost in the same status as a Prophet I think...

And if you were to read the life of the Prophet and his companions like the famous black companion Bilal.. You would see that Islam does not allow racism... But rather condemns it very strongly...

In fact in a saying it comes... No black is better than a white and no white is better than a black... Nor is any Arab better than a non Arab nor any non Arab over an Arab... But your status is through Allah's eyes in your fear of God... And on your actions... (Paraphrased there so don't quote me :-) )

And Islam does teach morals... If Muslims were to live according to the life laid out by the Prophet... The whole world will come into the fold of Islam... But sadly people have differed from the teachings and then commit heinous crimes for their own gain and desire and then take the name of Islam... Do not take the acts of Muslims as the teachings of Islam... Islam is perfect... Muslims are not...

Thanks for replying. It's hard to have debate these days, most people just resort to insulting one another.


In my eyes all religions are sexists, bar ancient cults in Paganism that worshipped balance in the sexes. Historically, since then,women have been treated like property (get her married?????What if she doesn't want to marry?) by men of all religions. To this day, no women drivers in Saudi. Required to cover there faces. Expected to be housewives. To some people these are just "traditional values" but to a student, this stinks of oppression, as it's the very opposite of the way I want to live.

Aren't honour killings a part of Islam? Isn't it in there that women should be stoned to death/have hands chopped off for committing adultery? I'll grant that this was a different time, but this is the 21st century, and such doctrine should be condemned. That to me is violent and sexist (why don't men receive such treatment?)

Isn't Islam strongly anti-Semitic? I believe there is a passage that encourage Jewish slaughter, which is violence and racism.


It does teach morals, I think the millions of peaceful Muslims are wonderful examples of that. However, the underlined bit I find extremely disturbing. What if we don't all want to live this way? Islam will only work if EVERYONE subscribes to it, which of course can never happen, humans are revolutionists by nature. We value our freedom. Islam does not.
In addition, I don't agree with things i've already listed, but I forgot to mention animal cruelty.

Now, we can argue back and forth the pros and cons of Islam all day, but surely, as a student, you must recognise that some of the things in there are simply not compatible the 21st century? Which brings me back to my original point. Why subscribe to it, with all these flaws?
I could list flaws with EVERY religion, so in my eyes, it does not make sense to belong to one. I'm happy to believe in a God that does not require killing in its name. Wouldn't everyone be more peaceful this way?

Those Buddist folk are really nice to the Muslims in Burma aren't they

Islam has given the woman a status in her home where she is treated as a wife and a mother and a queen... I don't know if you've read the statistics but for the same job, a man has a higher pay than a woman, in this country... Why because women will never be treated the same nor can they give the same contribution... And what kind of jobs do women get... Advertising kind of jobs where they have to put their body on display to get given a minimum wage...
Islam tells the woman... Stay at home where you're children treat you like a queen and where your husband has been commanded by God to protect you, feed you, clothe you, shelter you and love you... And treat you like a human... With rights... Until the 19th century in UK... Women weren't even seen as equal citizens like men.. Islam have given them their rights 1400 years ago... And about the driving in Saudi Arabia... That's not a law in Islam (since there were no cars then :-) ), but rather a law of the Saudi government... Islam says a woman can travel on her home town of she wants alone, but further than that... She has to go with a relative... So she can be protected and be safe... Again Islam is taking care of the woman... But people take it to be oppression...

I don't know what honour killings are but according to the punishments... Men and women get the same punishment.... Adultery is stoning to death and fornication is 100 lashes... And it's not just Islam but even in this country 2 centuries ago... Adultery and fornication was looked down upon and punished too I think... It's just that as time progresses... Our human morals are regressing...

And no... Islam doesn't say kill Jews... You've probably read it out of context... Or were probably fed wrong information by people who think they know about Islam...
Islam strongly condemns the killing of innocent people and so killing Jews who have done nothing to you is also strongly condemned...
When the Jews attacked and massacred for being Jews... It was the Muslims that took them in and gave them a sanctuary... Muslims and Jews were living in Palestine peacefully for many years.... So no... We do not kill Jews...
And people who carry out terrorist acts on innocent civilians in the name of Islam and Allah... They really get me angry :-!

And the part you underlined... That was just me saying it.... I was just saying that the real teachings of Islam are so pure that if people were to see what Islam actually is... And see Muslims act on it... They would see it as a way of life that they would want to adopt...

Contrary to what you may think... Islam does allow fun... Just under guidelines... If your idea of fun is getting drunk and high and then having a gang bang then no Islam does not allow that... But other things are fine... If it's not haram... It's halal :-D

Please elaborate on the animal cruelty thing

Isn't Islam strongly anti-Semitic? I believe there is a passage that encourage Jewish slaughter, which is violence and racism.

As far as the Jewish matter goes, i've read passages of the Quran which say exactly that. Could you tell me how I might have taken it out of context? And at the end of the day, the terrorists are following the exact same book as you. They may be interpreting it wrongly, but look at the result. It's catastrophic.

Right, from the top.
I am a western woman. As i'm a student, I earn minimum wage and don't do many hours. I am NOT required to flaunt my body earn a living, nor am I paid less. I realise this is the case, however, in better paid jobs.
Does this inequality mean we should give in? Settle for being meek housewives, as Islam would have it? No.
Women, in the vast, vast majority want lives too. Islam forces us to be under the guidelines of men our entire lives. Yes, it would be easier to be taken care of, but is it fulfilling or dignified? No.
And actually, women did have rights as humans, but not as working citizens, very much the way Islam STILL treats women. We were seen as possessions, but we're moving past that, and are closer to equality than we ever have been. Islam degrades women, under the idea that we need protecting.

Right, the punishments. STONING? LASHES? This is the 21st century, how can you think that is acceptable? Moral?
Although I agree that adultery is more common that it used to be and should be condemned, physical violence seen in Islam today on this matter is a disgrace to humanity.

As far as the Jewish matter goes, i've read passages of the Quran which say exactly that. Could you tell me how I might have taken it out of context? And at the end of the day, the terrorists are following the exact same book as you. They may be interpreting it wrongly, but look at the result. It's catastrophic.

Based on what i'm discussing about Islam, I most certainly would not want to adopt it. I value my freedom. As a human, it is the most important thing in the world to me. Islam is a totalitarian system.

Finally, not all people, in fact very few, in the west call fun drinking, drugs and gangbanging. I drink occasional, at social events. I, like everyone else, am entitled to this, but more importantly accept the consequences of my actions if I go out of control, which can range from a hangover to death. I do not need a book to parent me on responsibility. I trust both God and myself with the need for such restrictions.

*As for animal cruelty, doesn't Halal meat require an animal to have blood drained from its body? I find that incredibly upsetting, to put an animal through pointless pain and a humiliating end. I realise it's simply the food chain, but lions don't torture buffalo before they eat them. It is barbaric.

And would you mind staging your argument back in paragraphs? It's really hard to find certain points.

Lol... Sure... I'll try...

Husbands are LIKE the masters... But women aren't their slaves... It doesn't say that women have to do their every bidding... So much so that a wife doesn't have to cook for her husband but she does it out of love... I think the only thing that a wife has to do is share his bed when he asks... This I think is because one of the main reasons of marriage is so that people do not have illegitimate relations and fulfill their desires unlawfully... And if a husband needs to fulfill his desires and his wife doesn't let him then he might have to do it through unlawful means...

But don't think women are just worthless desire fulfillers... Because if a husband has intercourse with his wife but doesn't fulfill her and does not... I don't know... Make her come or satisfy her... Its a sin... There is reward for men in foreplay and to make their wives feel wanted and satisfied... So much so that it is better to play with your wife and satisfy her at night than it is to worship all night...

You might call it meek housewife but other women think it's not.. But rather uplifting and freeing from the nets and desire and advances of men...

The punishments are really only applicable in places where there is Islamic law... Which I think is only Brunei... So don't worry, you're safe

Please could you quote the passage...

Islam obviously doesn't give freedom because this is a world of test, an imperfect world... Our real abode is paradise... And Muslims believe that if we are good in this world... We will enter paradise where we will have total freedom to do what we want... Forever... Isn't that much more appealing than 50 years of guilty fun in a temporary world

Actually Islam even treats killing animals in an ethical way... There are guidelines such as make sure the knife is sharp... Don't do it in front of other animals... Make a quick swift cut... In not sure how you cut... But I think it's the three veins in the neck... I can check for you if you want... But it's not in my knowledge

I think it is wrong for you to say Christians look down their noses at Muslims, of course they don't.

The most important thing is to look at the difference in the lives of Jesus and Mohammed in comparison.

Jesus was a a man ahead of his times, a peace maker, he never killed and he never retaliated by causing anyone harm if they did anything against him. He said 'bless those who persecute you'. He was compassionate, cared for the outcasts of society like the tax collectors, prostitutes, adulterers. He said the greatest commandment is to love one another, as he loved us. I think you would be hard pressed to find a fault in him.

Heaven is a place of restoration and eternal peace, living in the presence of God.

A person who is a Christian must follow Jesus teachings to be faithful. If someone, or a group of people call themselves Christians and do not live according to how Jesus lived then it would be illogical to call themselves Christ followers or Christians.

Anyone can call themselves anything they wish, it doesn't mean they are it.