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Truly tired of Labour BS on tuition fees. watch

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    Slightly depressed after listening to a load of Labour students saying they would be voting labour to get rid of Nick Clegg after he wasn't able to win a majority and thus make tuition fees free.

    I am duly trying to remind people that Labour not only CREATED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE but then wanted to increase them to a higher rate in 2010. If the Lib dems did not enter into a coalition, we would be paying far more than we would now under a labour or tory government.

    THIS is what the Lib dems have done: http://www.markpack.org.uk/libdem-infographic/

    THIS is what they have stopped: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...dems-two-party

    We are bloody lucky to have them as opposed to the blue and red team.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Slightly depressed after listening to a load of Labour students saying they would be voting labour to get rid of Nick Clegg after he wasn't able to win a majority and thus make tuition fees free.

    I am duly trying to remind people that Labour not only CREATED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE but then wanted to increase them to a higher rate in 2010. If the Lib dems did not enter into a coalition, we would be paying far more than we would now under a labour or tory government.

    THIS is what the Lib dems have done: http://www.markpack.org.uk/libdem-infographic/

    THIS is what they have stopped: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...dems-two-party

    We are bloody lucky to have them as opposed to the blue and red team.
    If they hadn't got in there would have been incentives for early repayment.

    They had an opt out on the tuition fee vote written into the coalition agreement. Why did they not exercise this, instead putting a three line whip on their MPs?
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Slightly depressed after listening to a load of Labour students saying they would be voting labour to get rid of Nick Clegg after he wasn't able to win a majority and thus make tuition fees free.
    A lot of these 'Labour students' will most probably end up realising that their party is a joke once they start working and see the mess Labour put the U.K. in.
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    That's why I tell people vote tories.
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    (Original post by Anonynous)
    That's why I tell people vote tories.
    Tories? They're just as bad.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    If they hadn't got in there would have been incentives for early repayment.
    That sounds like a really stupid idea tbh.

    They had an opt out on the tuition fee vote written into the coalition agreement. Why did they not exercise this, instead putting a three line whip on their MPs?
    Quite a few defied the whip. More than half actually.

    Besides , do you not think that it is ridiculous that labour planned to increase fees and then U turned when they lost the GE? Regardless of what party it is that's just dishonest.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    That sounds like a really stupid idea tbh.



    Quite a few defied the whip. More than half actually.

    Besides , do you not think that it is ridiculous that labour planned to increase fees and then U turned when they lost the GE? Regardless of what party it is that's just dishonest.
    Pretty useful when you want to reduce the deficit and improve repayment rates.

    More would have voted against had their not been a whip on it.

    Have they u-turned? I don't think they've said they'd reduce fees ahve they? They are in opposition, their job is to oppose the Government.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Pretty useful when you want to reduce the deficit and improve repayment rates.
    Is their any evidence to support that claim?

    I think if there is money for incentives it should be put so that people have to borrow less to begin with. Not only that but the ones who repay it quickest are going to be people that need less help.


    More would have voted against had their not been a whip on it.
    Possibly but that may have split government and led to a labour minority (and higher tuition fees not yo mention the lib dems being out of power and unable to bring ANY policies through)

    Have they u-turned? I don't think they've said they'd reduce fees ahve they?
    They planned to raise tuition fees in 2010 and then criticised the coalition when they raised them (but not as high as a labour/ tory majority). Maybe it's not a U turn as such but it is utter hypocrisy.

    They are in opposition, their job is to oppose the Government.
    Some might see it as their job to do what is best for their country instead of making cheap political shots. This is true of all parties but is particularly prominent in labour.
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    Do you think higher education should be free?
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    Do you think higher education should be free?
    :wavey: I do.
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    Do you think higher education should be free?
    I presume you're talking to me?

    Yes.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    I presume you're talking to me?

    Yes.
    Why?
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    (Original post by Simes)
    :wavey: I do.
    Why?
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    Why?
    (a) Society investing in its own future by supporting those able and willing to undertake research or gain advanced or specialist skills. I believe - but do not have the data to prove it and I'm too busy to go looking - that it is a worthwhile investment that pays a return greater than the cost.

    By having it free, people who could not afford to participate can do so. It also encourages those who would otherwise be put off. This maximises the return on the investment by helping ensure all of the cream can be skimmed off.

    (b) It makes society more fair by allowing people who could not afford to participate to do so.


    My assumptions are that the education will be repaid to society in:

    - greater quality, variety and quantity in the arts;
    - more diversity in services and products available to consumers;
    - more rapid research in all fields;
    - a more informed, more questioning, population.

    There will be some layabouts and scroungers who abuse the system, but I'd rather they turned up to a few lectures and were mixing with people getting on with their lives that hanging around on street corners or watching Jeremy Kyle. At least they will get to the end of the process knowing they were given an opportunity and wasted it, rather than blaming society for their woes.
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    (Original post by Simes)
    (a) Society investing in its own future by supporting those able and willing to undertake research or gain advanced or specialist skills. I believe - but do not have the data to prove it and I'm too busy to go looking - that it is a worthwhile investment that pays a return greater than the cost.

    By having it free, people who could not afford to participate can do so. It also encourages those who would otherwise be put off. This maximises the return on the investment by helping ensure all of the cream can be skimmed off.

    (b) It makes society more fair by allowing people who could not afford to participate to do so.


    My assumptions are that the education will be repaid to society in:

    - greater quality, variety and quantity in the arts;
    - more diversity in services and products available to consumers;
    - more rapid research in all fields;
    - a more informed, more questioning, population.

    There will be some layabouts and scroungers who abuse the system, but I'd rather they turned up to a few lectures and were mixing with people getting on with their lives that hanging around on street corners or watching Jeremy Kyle. At least they will get to the end of the process knowing they were given an opportunity and wasted it, rather than blaming society for their woes.
    lol...by free you mean no debt is incurred and the cost is passed onto the taxpayer and,

    Why can't all the benefits that you stated be realized under the current system? I am not referring to the amount, I am referring to the system of owing the government for going to university and only paying when you make a certain amount of money.

    The current system needs some changes but the system as a whole is fair.
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    (Original post by saayagain)
    Why?
    Social mobility
    Increased opportunities
    Greater research and development
    Gives people choice
    Education is a public good
    ...

    I think there IS an argument that university education has been devalued with the sheer number of entrants. I think this should be addressed by reducing the number if universities and stressing less need to go to university at college/sixth form. Uni isn't for everyone but should be free for those who do decide to go.
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    (Original post by Simes)
    At least they will get to the end of the process knowing they were given an opportunity and wasted it, rather than blaming society for their woes.
    Unfortunately people like that aost always don't think like that- these people are the blamers of society.
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    The question I answered:
    (Original post by saayagain)
    Do you think higher education should be free?
    I answered and got:
    (Original post by saayagain)
    lol...by free you mean no debt is incurred and the cost is passed onto the taxpayer
    Well, what did you mean by 'free'?
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    (Original post by Simes)
    The question I answered:I answered and got:Well, what did you mean by 'free'?
    That's what free means in this context.

    You didn't answer my reply. bad times
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Social mobility
    Increased opportunities
    Greater research and development
    Gives people choice
    Education is a public good
    ...

    I think there IS an argument that university education has been devalued with the sheer number of entrants. I think this should be addressed by reducing the number if universities and stressing less need to go to university at college/sixth form. Uni isn't for everyone but should be free for those who do decide to go.
    So you cannot have these benefits if it isn't free?
 
 
 
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