Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free

'Women don't owe men anything'. But do men owe women anything? Watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    I have 2 complaints tonight:

    Firstly yes men are not owed sex by women [see Robert Glover 'Nice Guy' complex] I agree with this.

    HOWEVER why do a lot of women feel they are owed something by men? In particular I notice that the current generation blames the men of this generation for the ****-ups and abuses of our misogynist forefathers. This is the logic behind 'check your privilege' which prevents men's rights being discussed. I should note not all MRA discussions are valid, but there are plenty which are.

    Secondly, can we please quit it with the 'omg you must be a turbo-virgin' response. This is a feminist shaming tactic to silence men especially MRAs. The problem is not only that it is an ad hom, but it inadvertently reinforces the slut/stud double standard by putting men obtaining sex on a pedestal, calling virgins 'losers' and so forth. Why is loss of virginity in a man a sign of superiority to those who have not, yet women who either have many sexual partners, or choose to remain celibate, are treated equally? Surely we should work to deconstruct both so that women can sleep around and men can remain virgins without society invalidating their worth?

    I am tiring of participating heavily in these debates but I can tell you that in the past 2 years I have been on TSR and the Internet I have become disillusioned to Feminism in the UK. A movement which I fully supported turns out to have contributed to various problems in my life including the way my dad was treated in the divorce. I have spoken multiple times on the problem of 'man up' and a Facebook friend part of the Fem-Soc of my former uni slated a man discussing the problems he faced in society as a man (not once did he bash women or feminism, only his criticism of society).

    I only asked that both genders would be allowed to emancipate themselves from a repressive hetero-normative culture, yet the situation is one-sided. We were promised change even in the 90s, and things are only getting worse.

    So last night I swallowed the Red Pill (not the abuse part, I could never do that, but the issues of men's rights and reinforcement of 'hetero-normative' culture to work against men certainly.) The fact is there is some fabulous material on there regarding self-improvement and it explains various imposed social and cultural norms, how to use these to your advantage. I am well aware of multiple personality defects I have which make me unattractive and yes this is my responsibility to amend.

    The reason I'm entrenched in it after all is just a bi-product of severe blatantly obvious social anxiety.

    Still the issues it raises are enlightening and harrowing.

    Day One TSR.

    If someone can direct me to some sources on what feminism is doing in the UK and USA to make society more equal without ****ting on men then be my guest, but my mind is currently made up. I will continue to support the issues worth addressing such as the need for feminism in the Middle East and Asia, as far as I can see the West is now ruled by the pursuit of money, power and sex.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Stopped reading at: I have 2 complaints tonight.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sherlockfan)
    Stopped reading at: I have 2 complaints tonight.
    again, shaming tactics without even reading the content. This one in particular leads back to 'man up' (men to maintain frame, do not confide problems)
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    again, shaming tactics without even reading the content. This one in particular leads back to 'man up' (men to maintain frame, do not confide problems)
    OK.
    You cant blame me for not reading your posts when youre going to become an Anti...just because of some things you read on the internet.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    >So last night I swallowed the Red Pill

    Did you wash it down with gay lube oil?


    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sherlockfan)
    OK.
    You cant blame me for not reading your posts when youre going to become an Anti...just because of some things you read on the internet.
    I repeat, not just online, observed social behaviours.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by yo radical one)
    >So last night I swallowed the Red Pill

    Did you wash it down with gay lube oil?


    see ironically the second big problem with TRP and its overt hetero-normative worldview is that it's homophobic and trans-phobic.

    The fact you're conflating whiney with gay is homophobia and demonstrates the need for men to conform to these roles

    Please don't make fun of my sexuality mate, I'm bi-curious.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    I repeat, not just online, observed social behaviours.
    The way you see things is biased by the things you have read online.
    Sort out your own emotional problems before commenting on those of wider society.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Obviously not. Aside from the basic "not being a mug", no one owes anyone anything.

    Dumb question.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sherlockfan)
    The way you see things is biased by the things you have read online.
    Sort out your own emotional problems before commenting on those of wider society.
    I'd say I was giving a fairly balanced view of the situation in the OP, the dangers of nice guy entitlement complex, of advocating the slut/stud double standard, favouring feminism elsewhere, etc.

    I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to comment, free speech and all that-just as you comment on Sherlock, and made the thread on 23 y/o female virgins a few weeks ago. Although I suffer confirmation bias, you're indirectly promoting a 'don't listen to him, he's crazy' attitude towards me.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by молодой гений)
    Obviously not. Aside from the basic "not being a mug", no one owes anyone anything.

    Dumb question.
    I don't feel I see this attitude IRL.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by sherlockfan)
    The way you see things is biased by the things you have read online.
    Sort out your own emotional problems before commenting on those of wider society.
    Spot on.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    I don't feel I see this attitude IRL.
    Then you're either over-analysing things or hanging out with weird people.

    Seriously, no one owes anyone anything, and genders are not monoliths. I find these TSR "but men! but women! everyone sucks!" threads kind of sad. People IRL aren't like this.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by молодой гений)
    Spot on.
    by this logic, anyone with e.g. depression, should not be allowed to comment on current affairs. This is blatant discrimination
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    I have 2 complaints tonight:

    Firstly yes men are not owed sex by women [see Robert Glover 'Nice Guy' complex] I agree with this.

    HOWEVER why do a lot of women feel they are owed something by men? In particular I notice that the current generation blames the men of this generation for the ****-ups and abuses of our misogynist forefathers. This is the logic behind 'check your privilege' which prevents men's rights being discussed. I should note not all MRA discussions are valid, but there are plenty which are.

    Secondly, can we please quit it with the 'omg you must be a turbo-virgin' response. This is a feminist shaming tactic to silence men especially MRAs. The problem is not only that it is an ad hom, but it inadvertently reinforces the slut/stud double standard by putting men obtaining sex on a pedestal, calling virgins 'losers' and so forth. Why is loss of virginity in a man a sign of superiority to those who have not, yet women who either have many sexual partners, or choose to remain celibate, are treated equally? Surely we should work to deconstruct both so that women can sleep around and men can remain virgins without society invalidating their worth?

    I am tiring of participating heavily in these debates but I can tell you that in the past 2 years I have been on TSR and the Internet I have become disillusioned to Feminism in the UK. A movement which I fully supported turns out to have contributed to various problems in my life including the way my dad was treated in the divorce. I have spoken multiple times on the problem of 'man up' and a Facebook friend part of the Fem-Soc of my former uni slated a man discussing the problems he faced in society as a man (not once did he bash women or feminism, only his criticism of society).

    I only asked that both genders would be allowed to emancipate themselves from a repressive hetero-normative culture, yet the situation is one-sided. We were promised change even in the 90s, and things are only getting worse.

    So last night I swallowed the Red Pill (not the abuse part, I could never do that, but the issues of men's rights and reinforcement of 'hetero-normative' culture to work against men certainly.) The fact is there is some fabulous material on there regarding self-improvement and it explains various imposed social and cultural norms, how to use these to your advantage. I am well aware of multiple personality defects I have which make me unattractive and yes this is my responsibility to amend. The reason I'm entrenched in it after all is just a bi-product of severe blatantly obvious social anxiety.

    Still the issues it raises are enlightening and harrowing.

    Day One TSR.

    If someone can direct me to some sources on what feminism is doing in the UK and USA to make society more equal without ****ting on men then be my guest, but my mind is currently made up. I will continue to support the issues worth addressing such as the need for feminism in the Middle East and Asia, as far as I can see the West is now ruled by the pursuit of money, power and sex.
    I agree with you (as a woman)! Men and woman don't owe each other anything apart from a mutual respect I think that feminism is a largely misunderstood movement, and there have been times when I've actually questioned whether I should be a feminist! To me, feminism is a progression to women feeling safe in society and men and woman being equal, which is why Emma Watson reiterates that men are needed in her campaign.

    I completely disagree with 'virgin shaming' as much as I agree with 'slut shaming'. People who do this are clearly insecure in their personal identities so feel the need to chastise others to make themselves feel better.

    There are women out there who twist what feminism is and make it out to be a movement against men, which it isn't; these misadrists are fake feminists. However, you can't live your life without coming across a few vindictive women. Just the same as you come across leering, cat-calling men.

    #HeForShe by Emma Watson is a good example of what feminism truly is.

    Oh, and "the West is now ruled by the pursuit of money, power and sex"? It always has been.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    That's western feminazi for you my friend. Double standards.
    I 100% agree with you. Feminism is still very needed, maybe even in western countries-when it comes to working- women still are sometimes paid and treated badly at work in western countries -but lately it became an excuse for women who feel insecure to ***** out at men. How ladylike. Charming, eh?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by SiminaM)
    That's western feminazi for you my friend. Double standards.
    I 100% agree with you. Feminism is still very needed, maybe even in western countries-when it comes to working- women still are sometimes paid and treated badly at work in western countries -but lately it became an excuse for women who feel insecure to ***** out at men. How ladylike. Charming, eh?
    you made this opener in my last (now removed) thread, not sure if sarcasm

    I'd agree there are obvious issues of harassment in the workplace, the glass ceiling is a problem and a few other things, so I'm not denying feminism is not needed-just that it's time to move towards focus on egalitarianism rather than favouring one gender. Examples: divorce laws, stay-at-home dads, paternity leave etc.

    If we observe how society has screwed us all over, we all work towards amending it?
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by katinthehat)
    I agree with you (as a woman)! Men and woman don't owe each other anything apart from a mutual respect I think that feminism is a largely misunderstood movement, and there have been times when I've actually questioned whether I should be a feminist! To me, feminism is a progression to women feeling safe in society and men and woman being equal, which is why Emma Watson reiterates that men are needed in her campaign.

    I completely disagree with 'virgin shaming' as much as I agree with 'slut shaming'. People who do this are clearly insecure in their personal identities so feel the need to chastise others to make themselves feel better.

    There are women out there who twist what feminism is and make it out to be a movement against men, which it isn't; these misadrists are fake feminists. However, you can't live your life without coming across a few vindictive women. Just the same as you come across leering, cat-calling men.

    #HeForShe by Emma Watson is a good example of what feminism truly is.

    Oh, and "the West is now ruled by the pursuit of money, power and sex"? It always has been.

    Great post. I've been trying to find the likes of you, true feminists for want of a better term-but there are very few on the forum. A few I can think of, Redferry, Octopus Garden (someone else damn trying to remember their name)
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    by this logic, anyone with e.g. depression, should not be allowed to comment on current affairs. This is blatant discrimination
    No. Anyone is allowed to say whatever they want.

    But analysing your own bias(es) is also a good idea.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Well, my dad owes me £40 because I bought him a microwave and he said he'd pay me back.

    But in general, if we're all just decent human beings to one another, I don't think anyone really owes anyone else anything unless explicitly agreed.
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you rather give up salt or pepper?
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Write a reply...
    Reply
    Hide
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.