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Far right in UK 'weakest for 20 years' watch

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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-30802767

    What has gone wrong for the far right in the UK?

    In 2008 and 2009 the BNP were starting to make some electoral headway winning council seats and a couple of seats at European elections, Nick Griffin said the BNP was "one crisis away from power", he started to get a media presence and was on Question Time. However they have now lost their European seats and their council presence.

    The EDL also seemed to be quite a significant group a few years back with a lot of large marches but it seems to have drifted away from the scene, Tommy Robinson quit them and ended up with personal problems and controversies of his own (as did Nick Griffin).

    With terrorism, ongoing disillusionment with mainstream politics and continued high immigration you would have thought the far right could have made some progress as it has done in Europe but in the UK it seems to have stagnated.

    Have they been outflanked by the rise of UKIP who are drawing away their supporters and campaigners?

    Is there any future for the far right?

    I know there are a few TSR posters who support far right ideologies and like to come on here to raise awareness of cultural Marxism and the BBC and the global Jewish conspiracy so maybe they have got some insight in to what has gone wrong?
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    They are too busy sharing Britain First posts, rather than bashing gays and foreigners on the streets.
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    UKIP took all their voters, most likely because the mass anti a immigration vote never was as extreme as Griffin but some saw no other outlet and held their noses.
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    definitely the rise of UKIP... in my opinion, that's a good thing. Have BNP and EDL ever done any good?
    I don't see many Marxist parties around so why is there this urge for far right parties to grow?? We're actually quite lucky that we aren't having the issues France is having with the National Front and so on...


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    (Original post by Observatory)
    UKIP took all their voters, most likely because the mass anti a immigration vote never was as extreme as Griffin but some saw no other outlet and held their noses.
    This. Now the BNP are only left with their very extreme core support base, which is very small. A moderate party like UKIP stops parties like the BNP from gaining mainstream support.

    Of course there'll be a few more extreme BNP supporters who think UKIP isn't extreme enough, but they settle for them as a more electable alternative. A bit like tactical voting.

    But there is an issue with this explanation. In the 2009 Euro elections, the BNP got 2 seats but UKIP came second overall - so if UKIP are responsible for the BNP decline why did it not happen then? There must have been something else as well.
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    (Original post by RFowler)

    But there is an issue with this explanation. In the 2009 Euro elections, the BNP got 2 seats but UKIP came second overall - so if UKIP are responsible for the BNP decline why did it not happen then? There must have been something else as well.
    In 2009 UKIP came 2nd overall with 17% share of the vote
    In 2014 UKIP came 1st overall with 26% share of the vote

    So its feasible that that increase in share has included eroding the BNP vote

    I think also in terms of nationalism the BNP has a difficulty that "Britishness" is associated with some values that don't sit well with the far right. If they try to idolise Churchill it doesn't sit right as he had some paternalistic statist tendencies and was a bastion of resistance to fascism. The far right sits better in Europe where there are more authentic heroes (Mussolini, Hitler, etc).

    For the nationalist Brits, Farage probably comes over as more authentically 'British', a mildly eccentric wealthy gentleman that likes real ale, than the likes of Griffin who look like pub bruiser wannabe hardnuts. Even if you disagree with Farage he seems like the kind of guy you could have a bit of a laugh with and would be charming and decent company in person whereas Griffin and the other BNP characters like Brons give off a vibe of extreme unpleasantness.
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    Have they been outflanked by the rise of UKIP who are drawing away their supporters and campaigners?

    Yes. /thread
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    This. Now the BNP are only left with their very extreme core support base, which is very small. A moderate party like UKIP stops parties like the BNP from gaining mainstream support.

    Of course there'll be a few more extreme BNP supporters who think UKIP isn't extreme enough, but they settle for them as a more electable alternative. A bit like tactical voting.

    But there is an issue with this explanation. In the 2009 Euro elections, the BNP got 2 seats but UKIP came second overall - so if UKIP are responsible for the BNP decline why did it not happen then? There must have been something else as well.
    I think it is for two reasons. First, both UKIP and the BNP started getting more publicity, so the choice was simply become more informed. Second, UKIP moved more towards being an anti-immigration rather than anti-EU party. Probably there is an element of bandwagon hopping but I think the dominant reason is that UKIP's proposals - seemingly for a race-blind, aptitude-based immigration system with a numbers cap lower than the current one and unconditional acceptance of people who are already citizens - is much closer to what the average anti-immigration voter wants than forcible repatriation of ethnic Africans and so forth. In fact I would suggest that UKIP is closer to the median voter on this issue than the mainstream parties, whereas the BNP is further.
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    Ukip has certainly mopped up most BNP voters although i'm not sure about the degree of campaigners since they apparently kick former BNP members out. Then we have the fact that the BNP actually got Dagenam council but were kicked out a year later because they were unable to organize an orgy in a brothel (this is a danger for Ukip in 2017 when all those seats they won in 2013 come up for grabs again). Finally, i do think that Observatory is largely correct above in that the BNP were national socialists, heavily authoritarian and quite far to the left on tax and spend. Contrast this even to 2010 when Ukip really were just the right of the Tory Party (so largely within the fringes of the current voting consensus), it's a lot easier to vote for a party that won't radically change much beyond immigration than it is to vote for a wholesale radical change. When you consider that the Tories were in power for 18 years, Labour for 13 years and that 2 national referendums have been rejected (one Scottish, one UK), you kind of get the impression that most voters don't want to burn the place down and start again, instead they just want to tinker.
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    So UKIP is not far right?
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    Equally there is a fall in far-left parties. Why? Because the democratic state of the UK is awful. Every party has become more centralized, with the Conservatives showing Labour tendencies, and Labour showing Conservative tendencies. Everything has become homogenized, and as a result the fringes are being eradicated.
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    (Original post by clh_hilary)
    So UKIP is not far right?
    If you looked at any of their policies you'd find out for yourself. But no, obviously they are not far right!
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    UKIP is the most far right party I've ever seen.
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    (Original post by Glory&Honour)
    the left also share a portion of the blame - political corectness, suppport of homosexuality, devoloution, all products of the left.
    I fail to see what's wrong with supporting homosexuality - all it means in practice is promoting equal rights for gay people, and I've yet to see a rational argument against that. Unless I've misunderstood your comment. Are you referring to things like gay marriage, or to homosexuality itself?

    And it's not a left vs right issue, it's more of a liberal vs authoritarian issue. A Conservative government legalised gay marriage, and Blair's earlier reforms (e.g. civil partnerships, equal age of consent) came at a time when Labour had drifted to become centre-right, rather than left wing.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    In 2009 UKIP came 2nd overall with 17% share of the vote
    In 2014 UKIP came 1st overall with 26% share of the vote

    So its feasible that that increase in share has included eroding the BNP vote
    Yes, but it's weird that it didn't happen before. It's not like UKIP were a small party, they came second in 2009. You would have thought the BNP vote would have been eroded then. I know UKIP focus more on immigration now than they used to, but from what I understand it was always an issue.

    Or maybe they did erode it a bit and without UKIP the BNP could have won more seats at that election?

    (Original post by Glory&Honour)
    Then you are another brainwashed fool. Look through history and you can see that when ever certain cultures started to support homosexuality they crumbled -Greek, Roman etc. Look at our society today, look atthe decay all around us. While I believe that it is non of my business what goes on in the rooms of other, why are school now supporting this stuff and bringing it to the forefront of our society.
    I see lots of problems with society, but not one of them is linked to homosexuality. We have many problems but the gays ain't one.

    Homosexuality harms no one and does not even affect those who are not homosexual. Giving a group of people equal rights they deserve is not the same as promoting it or "pushing it in my face", and schools support and teach about it because a - gay people exist, b- because of homophobic bullying and c - the very different challenges gay people face during school age when compared to straight people.

    In an ideal world we wouldn't need all that, gay people would live their lives as they want to and no one would care. But that's not the case, so schools therefore do teach about it and LGBT equality is often promoted. It's mostly the homophobes who bring it to the forefront of society by making this necessary.
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    Good riddance.

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    (Original post by InnerTemple)
    Good riddance.

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    Would pos rep if i could
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    (Original post by anonwinner)
    If you looked at any of their policies you'd find out for yourself. But no, obviously they are not far right!
    I've yet to see any policies of ukip that are far right.

    Support for the BNP has fallen for a whole host of reasons. A general degree of voter apathy, sits within the BNP with numerous off shoots of other, smaller less organised voters.

    I don't doubt some ex BNP supporters have joined ukip. The Labour Party has seen many ex members of the BNP join it in the past.

    Although, if we look at it truly objectively, there were many BNP supporters out there to begin with, labour, lib Dems and the conservatives have all seen a decline in support with many of its supporters joining ukip.
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    With Griffin and Robinson gone, the BNP and the EDL are but a shadow of their former selves. Britain First has attracted mild interest, mainly through their manipulative techniques on social media. They have no real physical support. They got 56 votes at the Rochester by-election, and even though they told their supporters to vote UKIP, that is a dismal result. However, Paul Golding, Britain First's leader, has just been arrested for harassment and breaching the 1936 Public Order Act (I've been saying this for a while now). With NF still too far right for most far right wingers, this leaves BNP, EDL, Britain First and NF with very few supporters. As it has been said several times already in this thread, this is mostly UKIP's fault, but party the fault of infighting within these organisations.
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    I fail to see what's wrong with supporting homosexuality - all it means in practice is promoting equal rights for gay people, and I've yet to see a rational argument against that. Unless I've misunderstood your comment. Are you referring to things like gay marriage, or to homosexuality itself?

    And it's not a left vs right issue, it's more of a liberal vs authoritarian issue. A Conservative government legalised gay marriage, and Blair's earlier reforms (e.g. civil partnerships, equal age of consent) came at a time when Labour had drifted to become centre-right, rather than left wing.
    Homosexuals have always been equal within and under the law. What was illegal was sodomy, which obviously mainly affected homosexuals and rapists. I don't have any issue with two men being in love, living together and even raising children. I have an issue with sodomy. As for immoral marriage I am opposed to that because sodomites can't have children, they can't morally consummate the marriage and the government gains power over the Church of England by passing immoral marriage, thus ruining the British government system.

    Conservative party was Classical Liberal, Labour were Socialist. Now they are both Progressive Liberal parties.
 
 
 
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