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    Since when has it been okay to make men the standard by which women live? Why do you want to be just like your male colleague in nearly every way? What's wrong with being a woman?

    Surely we should be celebrating our differences in gender, not our sameness! Why do you want to live in a world where you can be seen as masculine, that you're able to lift just like a man, not a girl? It doesn't make sense to me.

    Now I understand that as a woman living in a western world, the concept of feminism doesn't apply to me as much as it does for women in developing countries. Indeed, they are in need of basic human rights, what with FGM etc... not equality to men. Somehow, the west have put men all over the world in the state of mind that they are more superior than us in every way, that they are the models of which women strive to live by and be like... Why have they allowed this to happen? Who put them up on the podium?

    As a Muslim woman, and as paradise in the hereafter being my goal in life, I am proud to say that one day I can't wait to be a mother, a privilege men don't get. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) said: 'Paradise lies under your mother's feet'. Would I rather abandon my children so I can prove to society that I have the same worth as a man, or would I choose paradise?

    Allah (SWT) is the standard by which I live, and so do many other Muslim women and men. We live to please Him. Nothing else matters in this life. Both men and women are created equally by Him. If I wanted to lead a prayer instead of a male imam doing so, I could. The imam gets no more reward than whoever prays behind him. Islam teaches that life isn't about wealth and power, the two things which western women seem to want the most. There is no divide in Islam, we call each other brother and sister and never turn against one another to get power or wealth.

    P.S: In no way am I man-hating here.
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    First half was interesting, once you pre-supposed that Allah exists (which almost cerainly isn't true) you lost all credibility.

    Feminism is about choice, there is nothing wrong with choosing to be a housewife, however women deserve the choice to have a career and own their own land and to vote. There is no reason why a woman cannot take charge of men. You mentioned the idea of being 'seen to be masculine' but what is masculine? Also this again is a choice which we allow, if some women wish to make this choice than why should men have the power to stop them?
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    (Original post by BefuddledPenguin)
    First half was interesting, once you pre-supposed that Allah exists (which almost cerainly isn't true) you lost all credibility.

    Feminism is about choice, there is nothing wrong with choosing to be a housewife, however women deserve the choice to have a career and own their own land and to vote. There is no reason why a woman cannot take charge of men. You mentioned the idea of being 'seen to be masculine' but what is masculine? Also this again is a choice which we allow, if some women wish to make this choice than why should men have the power to stop them?
    I didn't pre-suppose Allah exists, I know he does, but that's not the argument here.

    In no way did I deny a woman's right to vote etc, by all means I stand for all rights to apply to both genders. You're right, why can't women make choices without men making the final decision? But that's the problem I'm trying to tackle. Why do women have to prove themselves to them in the first place? Surely women are strong enough in the first place to be able to live however the hell they want.

    And by masculine I mean most of stereotypes men are labelled with.

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    Funny enough Muslims and feminists have a lot in common. For starters they both walk around with a massive victim complex.
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    (Original post by 286001)
    I didn't pre-suppose Allah exists, I know he does, but that's not the argument here.

    In no way did I deny a woman's right to vote etc, by all means I stand for all rights to apply to both genders. You're right, why can't women make choices without men making the final decision? But that's the problem I'm trying to tackle. Why do women have to prove themselves to them in the first place? Surely women are strong enough in the first place to be able to live however the hell they want.

    And by masculine I mean most of stereotypes men are labelled with.

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    I don't think you realise what feminism is in practice (not what we were told): women having the choice to act as either traditional women or men, while telling men to stop complaining about having to be men because they were privileged in the first place, but also demeaning men who act more like traditional women [see: beta male, stay-at-home dad, Sensitive New Age Guy c. 1990s, etc.]

    Feminism would be cool if men could act feminine but biological imperatives state that most heterosexual women* are attracted to masculine figures. This is a biological instinct not a social construct. Therefore unless Men Go Their Own Way and choose a life of celibacy, we are obliged to remain in the role of 'masculine', while simultaneously being stripped of all the privileges (yes, largely abused) by feminism.

    you uphold men's right to liberate themselves from being men, but I strongly doubt you would date him.

    *since gender roles are blurred out of necessity within the LGBT community
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    For me feminism is solely about gender equality
    That's why I dislike the word "feminism", because although it's mainly women who are viewed as inferior, equality for men is just as important to me (men are often forced to compensate for said female "inferiority")
    Both genders are stereotyped terribly (I won't even go into genders that aren't male or female :rolleyes:)
    My point is, it's not about women being masculinised or playing victim, it's about human beings being taken as they come and seen for the individual - not their genitals - rather than being expected to take gender roles
    It may sound petty in comparison to the blatant human rights violations that happen to women today but when you look at gender based prejudice as a whole it is overwhelming
    Asides from supposedly trivial matters that sexism createss there are many important issues or example women are often reduced to sex objects, while men often aren't taken seriously in cases of sexual or domestic abuse
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    The physical differences mean men will always be superior regardless of anything else (even if we ignore the fact that most CEO's and innovators are men too). If **** hits the fan, men are the only ones coming to the rescue.
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    In a sense I actually agree. I don't want power structures to be maintained just with the gender aspect removed, I want power structures gone.
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    (Original post by anarchism101)
    In a sense I actually agree. I don't want power structures to be maintained just with the gender aspect removed, I want power structures gone.

    This is why feminism along with other social equality movements like black rights etc has gained such a strong foot hold in many aspects and groups of the western political establishments (there are still lots horrible conservatives that will moan about it though). It doesn't threatened the economic set up among other power set ups. Men, women, straight, gay, white, black, Asian, we can all race to the bottom together on equal footing.

    You can see it very clearly in how they (they being the mainstream establishments) promote social rights leaders of old like Martin Luther King. He is treated as a hero for his role in black rights but the fact he was also a socialist of sorts is ignored. I america being a socialist basically makes you an enemy of the state by so many. Black rights is fine, socialism is not so we teach our children selectively of what he stood for. Focus on the race segregation, ignore the other things he stood for.


    “a national responsibility to provide work for all"

    “the right of every citizen to a minimum income”

    “move toward a democratic socialism.”

    “What good is having the right to sit at a lunch counter if you can’t afford to buy a hamburger?”

    are the sorts of things MR King said.

    It's entirely about symbols and manipulating what they stand for to in turn manipulate people. Basically don't let them tell you what someone stood for, read about that person yourself and form your own opinion.
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    You don't understand feminism. That is your problem.


    I am a very feminine woman but I'm a feminist. It's not about celebrating our sameness with men, since when has it been that way?
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    (Original post by 286001)
    Since when has it been okay to make men the standard by which women live? Why do you want to be just like your male colleague in nearly every way? What's wrong with being a woman?

    Surely we should be celebrating our differences in gender, not our sameness! Why do you want to live in a world where you can be seen as masculine, that you're able to lift just like a man, not a girl? It doesn't make sense to me.

    I like this.

    This was the problem with Emma Watson saying that we need men to help the feminist cause, which just basically neatly idolised men as more powerful heroes who can save equality.

    Coupled with the fact that, let's face it, she only got a voice heard because she's white.
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    You don't understand feminism. That is your problem.


    I am a very feminine woman but I'm a feminist. It's not about celebrating our sameness with men, since when has it been that way?
    She meant equality.

    It's always been that way. Feminism has always been about equality between the two genders.
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    (Original post by bertstare)
    The physical differences mean men will always be superior regardless of anything else (even if we ignore the fact that most CEO's and innovators are men too). If **** hits the fan, men are the only ones coming to the rescue.
    Having a **** and balls does not automatically make you superior.

    Or do you actually think you're better at everything than every female you have ever met?
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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Having a **** and balls does not automatically make you superior.

    Or do you actually think you're better at everything than every female you have ever met?
    Be careful asking that question here.
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    (Original post by caravaggio2)
    Funny enough Muslims and feminists have a lot in common. For starters they both walk around with a massive victim complex.
    In no way did I intend that Muslims were being victimised. I was merely just showing how Muslims in general would tackle a problem such a gender equality.

    Get a grip.

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    (Original post by Guills on wheels)
    Be careful asking that question here.
    I doubt he'd reply. He knows it's perfectly illogical to think that way, but rather than rationalise things he'd scurry away and bury his head in the sand.
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    (Original post by Smash Bandicoot)
    I don't think you realise what feminism is in practice (not what we were told): women having the choice to act as either traditional women or men, while telling men to stop complaining about having to be men because they were privileged in the first place, but also demeaning men who act more like traditional women [see: beta male, stay-at-home dad, Sensitive New Age Guy c. 1990s, etc.]

    Feminism would be cool if men could act feminine but biological imperatives state that most heterosexual women* are attracted to masculine figures. This is a biological instinct not a social construct. Therefore unless Men Go Their Own Way and choose a life of celibacy, we are obliged to remain in the role of 'masculine', while simultaneously being stripped of all the privileges (yes, largely abused) by feminism.

    you uphold men's right to liberate themselves from being men, but I strongly doubt you would date him.

    *since gender roles are blurred out of necessity within the LGBT community
    I think the whole idea of feminism is distorted here. Men and women should be able to do or be whatever they want. There's no need to have social rules that basically decides who stays at home and who the breadwinner should be.

    Actually, being a man is a privilege too as so is being a woman. They both have their unique differences and special uses... Otherwise everyone would just be rather be one gender.

    Masculinity doesnt have to be going to the gym and looking hench, it has nothing to do with appearance (most of the time). Sometimes, it means men stand for what they believe in while protecting and looking after those around you by any means. That's my personal opinion anyway.

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    Interestingly, most of the stuff you have said here I, as a feminist, would refer to as "a feminist opinion" (because feminism is a choice and I assume you don't refer to yourself as one but it aligns with many feminist opinions).
    For me, feminism is making sure women's work (whether professional or family) and voice is as valued as a mans would be. I think institutionally, and individually sexism still exists. I don't want to be like "like a man" I want all women to have the value as one.
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    (Original post by wingedxillusion)
    For me feminism is solely about gender equality
    That's why I dislike the word "feminism", because although it's mainly women who are viewed as inferior, equality for men is just as important to me (men are often forced to compensate for said female "inferiority")
    Both genders are stereotyped terribly (I won't even go into genders that aren't male or female :rolleyes:)
    My point is, it's not about women being masculinised or playing victim, it's about human beings being taken as they come and seen for the individual - not their genitals - rather than being expected to take gender roles
    It may sound petty in comparison to the blatant human rights violations that happen to women today but when you look at gender based prejudice as a whole it is overwhelming
    Asides from supposedly trivial matters that sexism createss there are many important issues or example women are often reduced to sex objects, while men often aren't taken seriously in cases of sexual or domestic abuse
    But that's the problem. Stereotyping has become so common that we forget to look at people as individuals (like you said).

    Otherwise yeh, its more about just having equal rights. No matter what gender or culture you are, it shouldn't determine the rights you receive. Unfortunately, ever since the west has had such a huge influence on the rest of the peoples, their minds are shaped to think that its okay to segregate pretty much everything.

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    (Original post by Twinpeaks)
    Having a **** and balls does not automatically make you superior.

    Or do you actually think you're better at everything than every female you have ever met?
    On average it does though.
 
 
 
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