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    Okay, so not talking about the referendum, which they lost due to ridiculous lack of coverage and misinformation/ fear mongering (plus the elderly/set in their way folk) BUT
    Snp are the third largest party in the UK
    Larger than the lib dems and UKIP put together. But they only represent scotland- ignoring their agenda for independence, their overall agenda is fantastic- free prescriptions, free higher level study etc, and adequate environmental plans- but they will never see real power. If they were just a party, not affiliated with scotland in any special way, they would get voted into Westminster government where they could actually do well for the UK


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    I thought they lost because they didn't have popular support.

    When you say fear mongering, so uiu mean the complete and utter BS that the YesNP campiqgn was spouting?

    What's the price of oil at the moment?

    you are aware that the snp it have 6 MPs in scotland compared the the lib dems 11?

    do you know if salmond ever did produce his non existent legal advice on the EU?
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    (Original post by Wait, what?)
    Okay, so not talking about the referendum, which they lost due to ridiculous lack of coverage and misinformation/ fear mongering (plus the elderly/set in their way folk) BUT
    Snp are the third largest party in the UK
    Larger than the lib dems and UKIP put together. But they only represent scotland- ignoring their agenda for independence, their overall agenda is fantastic- free prescriptions, free higher level study etc, and adequate environmental plans- but they will never see real power. If they were just a party, not affiliated with scotland in any special way, they would get voted into Westminster government where they could actually do well for the UK


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    Depends how you define 'largest party' - by members? Certainly not by votes cast or seats.

    There is nothing stopping the SNP standing elsewhere in the UK. If people think their agenda is as good as you say then they'd be voted in.

    You think Scots are so stupid they were hoodwinked by Better Together? Really?
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    Their agenda is crap. Shiny goodies to win votes while actually cutting public services significantly (not saying they can avoid that but they try their hardest to hide it). Free prescriptions just means that those who have the means to pay are benefitted, not the poorest people.

    Free tuition fees is great for students like me, but is unsustainable in the medium to long term.
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    I thought they lost because they didn't have popular support.

    When you say fear mongering, so uiu mean the complete and utter BS that the YesNP campiqgn was spouting?

    What's the price of oil at the moment?

    you are aware that the snp it have 6 MPs in scotland compared the the lib dems 11?

    do you know if salmond ever did produce his non existent legal advice on the EU?
    "YesNP", the independence campaign was not just the snp. It was a political movement, not a party. How could the snp fear monger? They were supporting change, you can't monger fear over your current ****ty situation, they just gave a better option. Yeah the price of oil is pretty **** right now. Guess who that also affects? The UK as a whole, as who's in that? Scotland. We would be no worse off as an independent country than we are together. The UK also relies heavily on the oil. Plus, oil was not the only argument for independence, scotland is also a renewable rich country, with many exports and a large tourism income. It's the 3rd largest party in respect to party members.


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    (Original post by Wait, what?)
    "YesNP", the independence campaign was not just the snp. It was a political movement, not a party. How could the snp fear monger? They were supporting change, you can't monger fear over your current ****ty situation, they just gave a better option. Yeah the price of oil is pretty **** right now. Guess who that also affects? The UK as a whole, as who's in that? Scotland. We would be no worse off as an independent country than we are together. The UK also relies heavily on the oil. Plus, oil was not the only argument for independence, scotland is also a renewable rich country, with many exports and a large tourism income. It's the 3rd largest party in respect to party members.


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    The price of oil is still high.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Depends how you define 'largest party' - by members? Certainly not by votes cast or seats.

    There is nothing stopping the SNP standing elsewhere in the UK. If people think their agenda is as good as you say then they'd be voted in.

    You think Scots are so stupid they were hoodwinked by Better Together? Really?
    What I'm saying is the fact they're called "scottish national party" presents them from standing anywhere else in the UK, if they were called something else their support would be far greater. And yeah, I do. Some people I debated with couldn't even look past the fact they didn't like Alex Salmond (talk about educated vote), and many elderly people were mislead into being worried about pensions, and the bias of the BBC led to a misrepresentation of the yes campaign altogether, which surely affected votes too.


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    (Original post by Wait, what?)
    What I'm saying is the fact they're called "scottish national party" presents them from standing anywhere else in the UK, if they were called something else their support would be far greater. And yeah, I do. Some people I debated with couldn't even look past the fact they didn't like Alex Salmond (talk about educated vote), and many elderly people were mislead into being worried about pensions, and the bias of the BBC led to a misrepresentation of the yes campaign altogether, which surely affected votes too.


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    Some people I debated with couldn't even look past the fact they didn't like David Cameron (talk about educated vote), and many elderly people were mislead into being worried about NHS Scotland, and the bias of the BBC led to a misrepresentation of the no campaign altogether, which surely affected votes too.
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    (Original post by The_Mighty_Bush)
    Their agenda is crap. Shiny goodies to win votes while actually cutting public services significantly (not saying they can avoid that but they try their hardest to hide it). Free prescriptions just means that those who have the means to pay are benefitted, not the poorest people.

    Free tuition fees is great for students like me, but is unsustainable in the medium to long term.
    Shiny goodies? Like relentlessly cutting tax whilst in a deficit you mean? The Westminster government think cutting taxes will gain them votes, but the SNP aren't as shortsighted, and actually invest in public services etc, cutting tax isn't an option when we live in a socialist society, this isn't america where capitalism rules all. Westminster decides how much money to give to scotland, and the SNP decide what to do with it. All they really do is decide whats more important, so by saying they're cutting public services isn't particularly fair as their forced to make cuts somewhere, and they've decided on the least important.

    Sorry, what? Can you hear yourself? "Free prescriptions just means that those who have the means to pay are benefitted, not the poorest people" I don't even know what to say to that. try pay for your prescription if you don't have enough money, I guess if you're too poor that doesn't really benefit you if you were to get them for free.

    Free tuition fees are amazing, they increase the number of skilled workers in the country and increase the countries prospects etc. your logic is terrible, "not sustainable in the long run"
    Put it like this, free tuition is like an investment, they pay for your education and in turn, you make more money and pay more taxes. If anything, it only works long term.


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    (Original post by Wait, what?)
    "YesNP", the independence campaign was not just the snp. It was a political movement, not a party. How could the snp fear monger? They were supporting change, you can't monger fear over your current ****ty situation, they just gave a better option. Yeah the price of oil is pretty **** right now. Guess who that also affects? The UK as a whole, as who's in that? Scotland. We would be no worse off as an independent country than we are together. The UK also relies heavily on the oil. Plus, oil was not the only argument for independence, scotland is also a renewable rich country, with many exports and a large tourism income. It's the 3rd largest party in respect to party members.


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    The SNP led the campaign. There were other fringe groupings allegedly involved to give a degree of movement. But it was the snp who financed the campaign, led it and spoke on its behalf.

    We would currently be screwed if we'd received a yes vote. The UK economy is no where near as reliant on the oil and Gas industry as scotalnd is by itself.

    http://m.scotsman.com/news/uk/carney...lump-1-3660800

    Oil was pushed by the snp as the golden goose that would pay for everything else. You're right about renewables though, but salmond was still expecting the rest of the UK to pump it's taxpayers money into scotland rather than developing their own renewables.

    You may want to read up on renewables though. They've yet to produce the energy they've promised. They've yet to be as cost effective as promised and they've yet to deliver the jobs they've promised.
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    (Original post by Wait, what?)
    Shiny goodies? Like relentlessly cutting tax whilst in a deficit you mean? The Westminster government think cutting taxes will gain them votes, but the SNP aren't as shortsighted, and actually invest in public services etc, cutting tax isn't an option when we live in a socialist society,
    Is my council tax going to go up this year?

    Oh, no, its another year of freezing that in absolute terms - a cut relative to wages.

    I thought they wanted to cut corporation tax?

    And air passenger duty?

    And stamp duty?

    Since when was the SNP socialist?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Is my council tax going to go up this year?

    Oh, no, its another year of freezing that in absolute terms - a cut relative to wages.

    I thought they wanted to cut corporation tax?

    And air passenger duty?

    And stamp duty?

    Since when was the SNP socialist?
    You forgot to mention that nhs Scotland hasn't had the same funding increase as nhs England.
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    (Original post by Wait, what?)
    Okay, so not talking about the referendum, which they lost due to ridiculous lack of coverage and misinformation/ fear mongering (plus the elderly/set in their way folk) BUT
    This is delightful. You've come out with something fairly extreme, ludicrously controversial and downright ill-informed and said you're "not talking about it".

    Usefully it probably gives us some insight into the next part of your post.

    Snp are the third largest party in the UK
    Larger than the lib dems and UKIP put together. But they only represent scotland- ignoring their agenda for independence, their overall agenda is fantastic- free prescriptions, free higher level study etc, and adequate environmental plans- but they will never see real power. If they were just a party, not affiliated with scotland in any special way, they would get voted into Westminster government where they could actually do well for the UK
    Except of course that there are downsides which you are quite obviously ignoring. Free prescriptions, but a cut in the NHS budget - while in England it is being protected and poorer provision of major drugs in Scotland. Free tuition (for a first undergrad degree only, of course), but a poor system of student support, less people from poor backgrounds going to university and slashing 140,000 college places.

    In reality, these two things only benefit those who can afford them anyway. The young, the old, the poor, the pregnant and so many others were exempt from paying prescriptions anyway: over 90% were dispensed free, a statistic I believe holds true in England too. In Scotland it has been more difficult to afford to go to university for a poor young person than it is in England: yes, in England fees are charged, but are not paid upfront - it's support, not fees, that matter.

    Meanwhile the middle classes who can merrily afford it are getting off, with apologies for the poor punning, Scot-free.

    They're a populist party, and the reason the SNP couldn't function at UK level is because what holds them together and what buys them any sort of respectability is base nationalism.
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    (Original post by Wait, what?)
    Yeah the price of oil is pretty **** right now. Guess who that also affects? The UK as a whole
    It does not. North Sea revenue forms less than 1% of UK tax revenues. For Scotland, in some recent years, this figure has been as high as in the 20-percent range. A separate Scotland would be reliant - heavily reliant - on oil revenue; the UK is not remotely: it is a small figure, which the UK Government accepts is doing to dwindle in the next couple of decades.

    Plus, oil was not the only argument for independence, scotland is also a renewable rich country
    No it isn't. Renewable energy doesn't generate tax revenue, it is heavily subsidised by the state.

    DECC calculations showed that, without UK-wide subsidy, the additional cost of renewables subsidies to Scotland would be £198 a year, per household.
 
 
 
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