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    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...health-england

    A real possibility banding could go for doctors
    What do people think?
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    Check the BMA and the BMJ.
    Banding is the least of our worries when they feel justified in stretching and already highly strung NHS to 7 day services with minimal/no financial input and shifting out of hours work from 7pm-7am to 10pm-7am.
    Also the notion that doctors are being petty by counting hours is farcical when juniors already work such silly overtime without extra pay.

    I'm all for 7 day services and finding ways to alleviate the demands on the NHS. But lumping the problem on doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals is not a solution.
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    If you're interested OP, the executive summary in this document summarises the changes for both consultants and juniors (no precise salaries for the latter as yet)

    Gist as you say is no banding, but also higher basic salary, with less pay progression (pay currently increases year on year, but planned to group it and make it commensurate with 'responsibility' e.g. FY1, FY2, CT1-2, ST3-6... which is probably fair). Unless I've got the wrong end of the stick, they repeatedly emphasise the increase (generally speaking) in basic salary, whilst not exactly highlighting the fact that making out of hours 10pm-7am Mon-Sun as Zorg mentioned = much lower overall salary. "Cost-neutral" my ass.

    Edited heavily due to deciphering of technobabble
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    From the article:

    "unsocial hours and shift work... already cost the NHS £1.8bn per year"

    followed by, buried deep in the article:

    "At the same time, NHS trusts must reduce the £2.6bn a year spent on agency staff, trying harder to reduce the rates agencies are charging and to recruit permanent or bank staff".

    So... dramatically cut pay, but recruit more staff than you've been able to before, and pay the agency (I.e. a free market) staff less money whilst you hope your now disgruntled, weekendless staff somehow take less sick leave? Lol.

    Amazed that banding costs less than agency staff. Pretty terrible indicator for recruitment at the moment!
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    But banding adds a lot to junior docs wage so how are these changes going to affect docs
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    Hardly surprising. The entire public sector is in a state of disarray.
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    I'm confused are these changes good for medics on the whole? Especially pay wise
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    (Original post by ledleyking123)
    I'm confused are these changes good for medics on the whole? Especially pay wise
    They're not good... That's the point

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    (Original post by ledleyking123)
    I'm confused are these changes good for medics on the whole? Especially pay wise
    I feel I'm generally pretty ignorant about the whole issue, but I think the gist of it is this: Basic salary will be increased, but banding will be removed. But the problem with this there is no longer a disincentive for contracts with heavy out of hours work. This may not be an issue in some specialities, but will sting others (A&E springs to mind).
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    (Original post by ledleyking123)
    I'm confused are these changes good for medics on the whole? Especially pay wise
    Unless you live in alternate universe where people LIKE working the same hours for less money, I'd have to suggest it's a bad thing.

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    • Thread Starter
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    How is it less money if ur basic salary is going up
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    Also how likely is it these changes will actually come into plave
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    (Original post by ledleyking123)
    How is it less money if ur basic salary is going up
    Basic salary is the salary banding is applied to, not the salary after banding.
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    Ye so your fy1 will be getting a higher base salary what's the big deal
    About that. Plus other professions don't get such insane banding anyway so it's only fair everyone is equal
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    (Original post by ledleyking123)
    Ye so your fy1 will be getting a higher base salary what's the big deal
    About that. Plus other professions don't get such insane banding anyway so it's only fair everyone is equal
    No but nurses etc get unsocial hours pay and thus get paid extra for each hour of night shift, weekend shift etc. For doctors it is evened out for roughly how many on calls, weekends etc they will likely do in that rotation. It isn't really that 'insane'.

    And it is not unreasonable to expect some compensation for working weekends, nights, 12 days in a row etc

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    Is it likely to happen though? I highly doubt it. Bma acted like fools walking out
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    (Original post by ledleyking123)
    How is it less money if ur basic salary is going up
    If they put the basic salary up to the level of banded salaries currently, then it won't save them any money. Even if they do raise the basic salary, it won't come up to current levels.

    Many, many other jobs get antisocial hours pay. Some of those in the private sector who don't and who also work crazy hours (e.g. bankers) get bonuses instead.

    I can understand why the BMA walked out, but I'm not sure where we can go from here.
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    So you think this will definetly happen then as in banding will be permanently cut
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    (Original post by ledleyking123)
    About that. Plus other professions don't get such insane banding anyway so it's only fair everyone is equal
    Yes they do! Try working a night shift at any company and see how your hourly rate doubles, nearly triples in some cases.

    Other professions get paid for doing overtime whereas doctors do not. Is that "fair"?
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    (Original post by nexttime)
    Yes they do! Try working a night shift at any company and see how your hourly rate doubles, nearly triples in some cases.

    Other professions get paid for doing overtime whereas doctors do not. Is that "fair"?
    it's not at 'any' company

    where shift premiums exist in industry they can be as low as 10 % ...
 
 
 
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