last thread is a lot of hot air, no concrete evidence, I know its out there and apparently on the site, stock it up here feminists so that we can have an actual debate rather than 2 pretty circle-jerks
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Cite sources on what mainstream feminist groups are doing to support 'men's rights' watch
- Thread Starter
- 17-01-2015 15:09
- 17-01-2015 15:44
feminism has played a key part in trying to free men from gender roles too.
"stock it up here feminists" sounds a bit confrontational.
feminism by definition is a movement for gender equality.
“I have realized that fighting for women’s rights has too often become synonymous with man-hating. If there is one thing I know for certain, it is that this has to stop.” Emma Watson.
Last edited by sherlockfan; 17-01-2015 at 15:49.
- 17-01-2015 20:31
Feminism by definition is a movement for the advancement of women's rights, asking what feminism has done for men is akin to asking what the RSPCA has done for earthquake victims. Male status within society is what feminism uses as "the goal" so to speak although some typically feminist associated groups may push for equality for males in certain issues that isn't really part of feminism so its a bit unfair to demand feminist groups present evidence for doing something they don't market themselves as doing.
- 17-01-2015 21:47
Feminism isn't the tool by which to improve the lives of men as a gendered group. Feminism is the locus that gender theorist use to study the lives of self-identifying women.
This is what I truly, truly cannot understand about supposed men's right activist. You have identified the problem, the lives of men are deeply troubling, violence; whether that be against other men, which it usually is, or women and children; crime, white-collar to blue collar, acquisitive and interpersonal, an almost complete monopoly on organised crime;suicide, mental health illnesses and substance misuse; health and men's awareness of their own health status, all of these issues devastate men's lives and that it is men that they overwhelmingly effect we must, if we have any hope to actually solving these problems, begin to consider men's lives, in open, in public as a gendered being.
This has been happening in academia for coming on to 30-40 years however it has failed to gain the attention of policy makers or journalists and therefore is less of a public focus. For those that study Masculinity Studies there is a well researched, highly scrutinised concept of hegemonic masculinity. I'm not going to give a lecture on the topic, but I will attach readings to bottom of my post.
Patriarchy privileges men in some interactions and oppresses them in others, we use the structure of patriarchal societies to our advantage be they economic, social or political but at the same time are made "subordinate masculinites" by those very structures when faced with a man which has "better" hegemonic credentials. These tools are bound up in the localities with which men operate be they prestigious universities, street gangs, school-playgrounds or professional environments. Messerschmidt, whom I'll be posting below, describes these tools as resources by which men achieve hegemonic status among their peers. This is an useful notion when we consider how men often stratify themselves in social groups, primarily consisting of dominance (in it's widest sense not exclusively, but potentially, employing violence or the threat of violence) and prowess (at any given activity, although particular focus should be given to heterosexual sexual capital and physically or mentally strenuous activity).
Why I say this is that when you consider these things (and I really hope you look at the readings), even if you disagree with some or all of it, you must be able to see that feminism isn't about an us vs them. It's about living in a world where we embrace true gender difference, in all of it's messy, contentious glory whilst working to change the systems that privilege some over others. Masculinity studies can do this too, working to improve the lives of men (or women) does not mean other genders must loose out, it's about reconfiguring our societies to better express the diversity amongst us. Feminism is not the enemy, no more than men are the enemy of women. We are socialised in a structure that oppresses us all, together we must change that. You can be part of that too, but a mindless hostility makes you part of the problem. So why are you killing and destroying my brothers whilst supporting a system that does the same to our sisters?
Read, engage, be angry but don't be a c**t
Masculinites, R. W. Connell http://www.polity.co.uk/book.asp?ref=9780745634272
-This summary of the most pertinent chapter is quite useful http://culturalstudiesnow.blogspot.c...es-social.html but do take the time to read the whole book as it puts everything in a much better context
http://gas.sagepub.com/content/19/6/...=1&ssource=mfr "Hegemonic Masculinity, rethinking the concept" R. W. Connell and J W. Messerschmidt
Masculinities in place: situated identities, relations and intersectionality http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...0#.VLq7bNKUfqQ
Young Maculinities: Understanding Boys in Contemporary Society http://oro.open.ac.uk/3075/
In Search of the Highlife: Drugs, Crime, Masculinity and Consumption, M. Collison http://bjc.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/3/428.full.pdf
Policing Masculinities: Investigating the Role of Homophobia and Heteronormativity in the Lives of Adolescent School Boys W. Martino http://mensstudies.metapress.com/con...76325q8273567/
Prof. J. Butler Gender Trouble, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gender-Troub.../dp/0415389550
- 17-01-2015 23:57
Feminism is an absolutely meaningless term, dictionary definitions be damned, the movement is defined by the people who identify with it, and the people who identify with it are such a spectrum of people that it really as an idea has lost all meaning. When you have a group of people advocating female supremacy and the destruction of men, and people who genuinely want equality for both men and women both calling themselves the same thing it's apparent that the label of feminism is meaningless.
- Thread Starter
- 25-02-2015 03:42
bump for some tasty debate!