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    I'm facing a difficult decision. I'm 17 and have been a member of the Labour Party for over 2 years however I've increasingly been attracted to the policies of the Greens including the UBI and rail nationalization. If I want to be a Green member I must leave Labour. This is hard for me. All my family are Labour voters and are strongly commited to the party. However most of them, like me, are firecly Anti-Blair. I thought Milliband would be different. I thought he would stand up for the poor and battle auestrity but he has done very little whilst the Greens are seeking real change. As a committed socialist, a real one not a "third way" one, many of my ideas are in line with Green policy. However I just am finding it so hard to leave Labour. As a member of Labour I am able to volunteer for them etc. and get involved but as a Green I could not to this. I preach that democracy must be changed yet I'm afraid to put my whole support behind a minor (in conpar. to Labour/Tories). Should I leave Labour for Greens?!:confused:
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    (Original post by YesManF7W)
    I'm facing a difficult decision. I'm 17 and have been a member of the Labour Party for over 2 years however I've increasingly been attracted to the policies of the Greens including the UBI and rail nationalization. If I want to be a Green member I must leave Labour. This is hard for me. All my family are Labour voters and are strongly commited to the party. However most of them, like me, are firecly Anti-Blair. I thought Milliband would be different. I thought he would stand up for the poor and battle auestrity but he has done very little whilst the Greens are seeking real change. As a committed socialist, a real one not a "third way" one, many of my ideas are in line with Green policy. However I just am finding it so hard to leave Labour. As a member of Labour I am able to volunteer for them etc. and get involved but as a Green I could not to this. I preach that democracy must be changed yet I'm afraid to put my whole support behind a minor (in conpar. to Labour/Tories). Should I leave Labour for Greens?!:confused:
    Please do, that way you can contribute to the fragmentation of the left and hopefully we will finally get a much needed Conservative majority government - thanks for that!
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    Have you suddenly realised that labour are actually red Tories?

    In any case, read the road to serfdom, socialism is an authoritarian ideology.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Have you suddenly realised that labour are actually red Tories?

    In any case, read the road to serfdom, socialism is an authoritarian ideology.
    Except when it's anarchist or libertarian. Or just regulated capitalism. :rolleyes: Green are very much pro democracy and decentralization they are left libertarians of some sort. They are not the Bolsheviks.

    Stuff like Universal Basic Income is supported by libertarians on the left and right anyway.


    (Original post by Haza2012)
    Please do, that way you can contribute to the fragmentation of the left and hopefully we will finally get a much needed Conservative majority government - thanks for that!
    Ye... The Tories lost two actual seats to Farage.

    It's all unicorns and rainbows in Tory land.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Except when it's anarchist or libertarian. Or just regulated capitalism. :rolleyes: Green are very much pro democracy and decentralization they are left libertarians of some sort. They are not the Bolsheviks.

    Stuff like Universal Basic Income is supported by libertarians on the left and right anyway.
    .
    Question to the libertarian/ anarchist socialist:

    How can you stop people from owning private property/ adopting a currency without resorting to force?

    Whilst there's nothing wrong per se with universal income, the means of acquiring it for the greens are, well if it sounds to good to be true....

    if people are taxed too highly, they will leave en masse- France has illustrated this perfectly. As said previously, their only fall back is to invest in renewable energy, which whilst good and necessary is not going to cover the costs, doubly so now that oil is so cheap.

    People may be angered by companies like Amazon and Starbucks avoiding taxes. They will still happily shop there though. Just like nobody supports child labour, but buy stuff from Apple and Primark.

    I think the Greens economic plan is a disaster, which is a shame as I think their Health/ education/ Crime policies are great.

    In the meantime, I'll be sticking with the Lib Dems that support the environment whilst also having a better grasp of economics.
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    If you want more gender discrimination of prison sentences and whether you go to prison at all (based on your gender) then yeah, feel free.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Question to the libertarian/ anarchist socialist:

    How can you stop people from owning private property/ adopting a currency without resorting to force?

    Whilst there's nothing wrong per se with universal income, the means of acquiring it for the greens are, well if it sounds to good to be true....

    if people are taxed too highly, they will leave en masse- France has illustrated this perfectly. As said previously, their only fall back is to invest in renewable energy, which whilst good and necessary is not going to cover the costs, doubly so now that oil is so cheap.

    People may be angered by companies like Amazon and Starbucks avoiding taxes. They will still happily shop there though. Just like nobody supports child labour, but buy stuff from Apple and Primark.

    I think the Greens economic plan is a disaster, which is a shame as I think their Health/ education/ Crime policies are great.

    In the meantime, I'll be sticking with the Lib Dems that support the environment whilst also having a better grasp of economics.
    Private property cannot be maintained without force either. I've also seen very little evidence of this supposed catastrophic flight of the wealthy from France. Infact, since the new taxes tax revenue has actually increased.
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    (Original post by DaveSmith99)
    Private property cannot be maintained without force either.
    I agree, but i'm not a communist anarchist!

    I've also seen very little evidence of this supposed catastrophic flight of the wealthy from France. Infact, since the new taxes tax revenue has actually increased.
    Really?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...ut-the-lights/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27602312
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    The first article is from before the bill came into effect and seems to be what one tax lawyer expects to happen. At one point it does say that requests to leave are up 400-500% but gives no indication of where these figures came from.

    The second article says that since the tax rises, tax revenue has increased by 16bn euros and doesn't mention large scale flight of the wealthy. Even if the rich are leaving (I still don't believe there is any evidence to support this), why does it matter if tax revenues are up?
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    (Original post by YesManF7W)
    I'm facing a difficult decision. I'm 17 and have been a member of the Labour Party for over 2 years however I've increasingly been attracted to the policies of the Greens including the UBI and rail nationalization. If I want to be a Green member I must leave Labour. This is hard for me. All my family are Labour voters and are strongly commited to the party. However most of them, like me, are firecly Anti-Blair. I thought Milliband would be different. I thought he would stand up for the poor and battle auestrity but he has done very little whilst the Greens are seeking real change. As a committed socialist, a real one not a "third way" one, many of my ideas are in line with Green policy. However I just am finding it so hard to leave Labour. As a member of Labour I am able to volunteer for them etc. and get involved but as a Green I could not to this. I preach that democracy must be changed yet I'm afraid to put my whole support behind a minor (in conpar. to Labour/Tories). Should I leave Labour for Greens?!:confused:
    Remember if you do decide to change membership you must write to the party to do so, and they will send you correspondence before you can join another party.

    Regards from
    Green Party Member

    xx
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    (Original post by Haza2012)
    Please do, that way you can contribute to the fragmentation of the left and hopefully we will finally get a much needed Conservative majority government - thanks for that!
    Ha! Labour are not a leftist party. Milliband was the last light of hope and his record has been appalling. All Labours argument is that they are slightly better than the Tories.
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    (Original post by YesManF7W)
    I'm facing a difficult decision. I'm 17 and have been a member of the Labour Party for over 2 years however I've increasingly been attracted to the policies of the Greens including the UBI and rail nationalization. If I want to be a Green member I must leave Labour. This is hard for me. All my family are Labour voters and are strongly commited to the party. However most of them, like me, are firecly Anti-Blair. I thought Milliband would be different. I thought he would stand up for the poor and battle auestrity but he has done very little whilst the Greens are seeking real change. As a committed socialist, a real one not a "third way" one, many of my ideas are in line with Green policy. However I just am finding it so hard to leave Labour. As a member of Labour I am able to volunteer for them etc. and get involved but as a Green I could not to this. I preach that democracy must be changed yet I'm afraid to put my whole support behind a minor (in conpar. to Labour/Tories). Should I leave Labour for Greens?!:confused:
    It's tough. But the wrong Milliband won. David Milliband would have done so much more for the Labour party...not to mention he's more charismatic. I would be a Labour voter, but it's more of the same. I voted for the Greens in the European elections, and I like their policies.

    The Greens should be a natural ally to the Labour party. Labour has losts its roots. I may end up voting Labour because I'd think they'd have a greater chance of winning (I "live" in a tory-dominated area), but that's not because I exactly like the policies of labour. They are half baked..that said, I wouldn't be opposed to a Watermelon coalition should things come down to it. And for that to happen, the Greens would need to beat UKIP.

    And for the record, while the BBC and Fleet Street were having a wet dream about the rise of UKIP, they completely ignored the rising Greens. In the European elections, the Greens already beat out UKIP...and I'm pleased my vote actually counted in that election!!
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    (Original post by jammy4041)
    It's tough. But the wrong Milliband won. David Milliband would have done so much more for the Labour party...not to mention he's more charismatic. I would be a Labour voter, but it's more of the same. I voted for the Greens in the European elections, and I like their policies.

    The Greens should be a natural ally to the Labour party. Labour has losts its roots. I may end up voting Labour because I'd think they'd have a greater chance of winning (I "live" in a tory-dominated area), but that's not because I exactly like the policies of labour. They are half baked..that said, I wouldn't be opposed to a Watermelon coalition should things come down to it. And for that to happen, the Greens would need to beat UKIP.

    And for the record, while the BBC and Fleet Street were having a wet dream about the rise of UKIP, they completely ignored the rising Greens. In the European elections, the Greens already beat out UKIP...and I'm pleased my vote actually counted in that election!!
    So you're a Green supporter but would've preferred a Blairite becoming leader? What?
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    (Original post by YesManF7W)
    Ha! Labour are not a leftist party. Milliband was the last light of hope and his record has been appalling. All Labours argument is that they are slightly better than the Tories.
    Which is an argument fo sorts.
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    I am representing the Green Party in my school's mock elections, and I am struggling to provide genuine comebacks to these arguments, I'd appreciate if anyone who is more knowledgeable on the matter than me with perhaps provide a response? Thankyou.

    1)With increased taxation on the wealthy, does it not run the risk of deterring the wealthy from working as hard as possible and earning the most amount, as they will not be able to keep most of their profits? Thus resulting to less revenue from this tax. The Conservatives claim to have found that reducing the taxation of the wealthiest results in a higher revenue collected. How could this be disputed?

    2) Their immigration policy appears to be to allow entirely open borders except in cases where the immigrant may possess a severe danger to the public. How is the UK able to cope with this when there is already massive strain on the NHS and school places? Is it intended to be entirely funded by taxation?

    Thanks.
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    (Original post by simbasdragon)
    I am representing the Green Party in my school's mock elections, and I am struggling to provide genuine comebacks to these arguments, I'd appreciate if anyone who is more knowledgeable on the matter than me with perhaps provide a response? Thankyou.

    1)With increased taxation on the wealthy, does it not run the risk of deterring the wealthy from working as hard as possible and earning the most amount, as they will not be able to keep most of their profits? Thus resulting to less revenue from this tax. The Conservatives claim to have found that reducing the taxation of the wealthiest results in a higher revenue collected. How could this be disputed?

    2) Their immigration policy appears to be to allow entirely open borders except in cases where the immigrant may possess a severe danger to the public. How is the UK able to cope with this when there is already massive strain on the NHS and school places? Is it intended to be entirely funded by taxation?

    Thanks.
    Confirmation bias much? Are you representing the Greens by choice or were you assigned this task?
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    (Original post by YesManF7W)
    So you're a Green supporter but would've preferred a Blairite becoming leader? What?

    I'm just saying David Milliband would have done a better job than Ed. He's more polished and prime ministerial. He had more support of rank and file Labour Members.

    I am a Green supporter, so it wouldn't have made a difference.
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    (Original post by Hydeman)
    Confirmation bias much? Are you representing the Greens by choice or were you assigned this task?
    It's by choice, I'm just anticipating some accusations of my rivals and these are the only 2 things that I'm unsure of.
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    (Original post by simbasdragon)
    It's by choice, I'm just anticipating some accusations of my rivals and these are the only 2 things that I'm unsure of.
    (Original post by simbasdragon)
    It's by choice, I'm just anticipating some accusations of my rivals and these are the only 2 things that I'm unsure of.
    It's difficult to defend the economic policies of any of the parties with a chance of winning seats given their propensity to make promises they (privately) know they cannot keep. The Greens arguably have it worse than the others because, having never been in government, they're offering a deal that seems too good to be true. A higher rate of tax for the wealthy cannot pay for all that they offer (re-nationalising the railways, UBI, minimum wage of £10 per hour by 2020 and so forth). I haven't done the numbers myself but I expect there's going to be a few billion pounds' worth of unfunded promises in the manifesto.

    I don't see how you can defend the immigration policy but with the economic policy, you can make the argument that, while taxing the rich highly will encourage them to emigrate and/or actively dodge taxes, this is compensated for by the economic growth resulting from the elevated minimum wage and the significant reductions in travel expenses that the Greens say will result from bringing the railways back into state control (because it increases the amount of disposable income that people have to spend elsewhere in the economy) . You could also say that some companies have too much invested in the UK to leave. Of course, you'd be evading the point but that's what politicians do.
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    [QUOTE=Hydeman;53806581]It's difficult to defend the economic policies of any of the parties with a chance of winning seats given their propensity to make promises they (privately) know they cannot keep. The Greens arguably have it worse than the others because, having never been in government, they're offering a deal that seems too good to be true. A higher rate of tax for the wealthy cannot pay for all that they offer (re-nationalising the railways, UBI, minimum wage of £10 per hour by 2020 and so forth). I haven't done the numbers myself but I expect there's going to be a few billion pounds' worth of unfunded promises in the manifesto.

    I don't see how you can defend the immigration policy but with the economic policy, you can make the argument that, while taxing the rich highly will encourage them to emigrate and/or actively dodge taxes, this is compensated for by the economic growth resulting from the elevated minimum wage and the significant reductions in travel expenses that the Greens say will result from bringing the railways back into state control (because it increases the amount of disposable income that people have to spend elsewhere in the economy) . You could also say that some companies have too much invested in the UK to leave. Of course, you'd be evading the point but that's what politicians do.[/Qmuch
 
 
 
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