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Original post by PhilosopherQueen
I get your point, you can't argue with me, because to argue against the truth is a difficult task and your not up for it. Thanks for proving my point and in the eyes of all- there can be little doubt about the correctness of my position.
I was reading all the posts by different people, one of them confessing that he has committed a sin, and he do no know what comes next and there were others who are not helping him to repent but they are telling every one that it is okay if you have committed lewdness, one of them is you Philosopher Queen. I don't know why you told all of them you have mastered the Arabic language and you know all there is about Quran, haven't you read Quran? it says: [h="3"]
Surah Al-Araf
And (remember) Lût (Lot), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinn)? (80) "Verily, you practice your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)." (81) [/h]
Original post by najam40
I was reading all the posts by different people, one of them confessing that he has committed a sin, and he do no know what comes next and there were others who are not helping him to repent but they are telling every one that it is okay if you have committed lewdness, one of them is you Philosopher Queen. I don't know why you told all of them you have mastered the Arabic language and you know all there is about Quran, haven't you read Quran? it says:
Surah Al-Araf
And (remember) Lût (Lot), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinn)? (80) "Verily, you practice your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)." (81)
I was reading all the posts by different people, one of them confessing that he has committed a sin, and he do no know what comes next and there were others who are not helping him to repent but they are telling every one that it is okay if you have committed lewdness, one of them is you Philosopher Queen. I don't know why you told all of them you have mastered the Arabic language and you know all there is about Quran, haven't you read Quran? it says:
Surah Al-Araf
And (remember) Lût (Lot), when he said to his people: "Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinn)? (80) "Verily, you practice your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins)." (81)
Lol... so much of the "truth" by Philosopher Queen. I want to see people challenging this now. Totally will prove how much of a "Muslim" they are.
Original post by Anonymous
Rofl. The racist argument is just pure rubbish. Try harder, it's pathetic.
Brother you have told us that you have committed lewdness. all i want to say is that you should repent and make a decision that you will never do it again, i'm asking you all this as i think it is my duty to help you escape the sin and the guilt which comes after that.
Original post by Phoebe Buffay
This thread really is shocking. The majority of people citing a rather unpleasant book written 1400 years ago? And then talking about hell. You people are mad.
Not everything comes from the past is ugly and unpleasant as you claim. I don't know what you find unpleasant in this book. You said you read it, So please give us examples, and elaborate.
This is some verses from Quran translated to English:
about relationship:
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.
about Jesus: ( many verses about Isa=Jesus), I'm copying two only:
O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.
about the creation of human being:
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth in pairs.
there are many things in this book which was written 1400 years ago. many things beyond your understanding, beyond your grasp.
Original post by felamaslen
You will not go to hell for any of these things, since hell is a fictional place.
Not fictional place. its reality. Where all of tyrant people will Go! people who killed others for sake of their own benifits?? people who enjoy oppressing others...
Quran mentions the day of judgment in many verses. I'm copying some :
And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it, or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves.
Those who reject Faith will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until the Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster.
Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow; nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).
The following verse exactly resmble what you are saying in your comment:
The Unbelievers say, "Never to us will come the Hour": say, "Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you; - by Him Who knows the unseen - from Whom is not hidden the least little atom in the Heavens or on earth: nor is there anything less than that, or greater, but is in the Record Perspicuous:
Original post by Vegito
Lol... so much of the "truth" by Philosopher Queen. I want to see people challenging this now. Totally will prove how much of a "Muslim" they are.
Muslims are human being. They are not different from others.
let me ask you this ... Now all Christan people follow their religion, Christianity.
Islam comes to discipline our manners, to challenge ourselves to control our desires, our whims. Definitely Some will fail, and Islam make a choice of repentance. God forgive everything even committing Sodomy, but he never forgive that you worship someone beside him.
And, Sodomy mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago before you knew it or you might has lust for it.
Original post by PhilosopherQueen
Its worse than you think, not only have I read the Qu'ran, I understood it too. 
I was raised in a religious household between the Lebanon and the UK. I come from a lineage of scholars (including Amili scholars), Qadis (Judges and magistrates), clerics, thinkers, philosophers and historians.
By age 12, I had mastered knowledge of both modern standard and classical Arabic, memorized much of the Qu'ran, taken Isnaad and a whole host of other things. I can tell you, that the Islam that many on here preach, has no resembles to Classical Islam (speaking as someone who has read Hanabli, Hanafi, Mutalizila and Sufi literature).
Most Muslim scholars from the past, would not understand or recognize this tribalism that many of you seem to promote.
I was raised in a religious household between the Lebanon and the UK. I come from a lineage of scholars (including Amili scholars), Qadis (Judges and magistrates), clerics, thinkers, philosophers and historians. By age 12, I had mastered knowledge of both modern standard and classical Arabic, memorized much of the Qu'ran, taken Isnaad and a whole host of other things. I can tell you, that the Islam that many on here preach, has no resembles to Classical Islam (speaking as someone who has read Hanabli, Hanafi, Mutalizila and Sufi literature).
Most Muslim scholars from the past, would not understand or recognize this tribalism that many of you seem to promote.
Sister you have a lot of Islamic knowledge, much more than me by far, but please be more humble, as someone who has a lot of knowledge in Islam, you soud quite arrogant, that may not be your intention, but who knows? And I think for the sake of the brother, he should delete this thread, as Muslims we should be helping him, yet we are arguing with each other, and then you have the non Muslims, who believe they know everything about this life and then mock the religion, or apparently that's freedom of speech.... People are so hung up on small details and who's right and wrong and who knows the best in Islam, yet there are far more pressing issues, let's try help the brother as a unit, sorry if that sounded weird but yh
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Original post by al_mohajer
Not everything comes from the past is ugly and unpleasant as you claim. I don't know what you find unpleasant in this book. You said you read it, So please give us examples, and elaborate.
I haven't given examples because for me to do so would be a digression from what the thread is about.
And what you have written next is really what I detest about people like you. It is simply not enough for you that people don't believe what you believe. You have to go out of your way to convince others . Even people on this thread before you have asked me whether my dislike of Islam is because of what I've 'heard', or whether I had read the Qur'an - as if they couldn't comprehend the existence of a person who has read the Qur'an and hasn't immediately converted. And you may probably dispute this - but why else provide quotes from the Qur'an?
Original post by al_mohajer
This is some verses from Quran translated to English:
about relationship:
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.
about relationship:
And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.
You realise, all this says is that in the world, we can have sex within our own species, and not only that, we also have the capacity for love and mercy. The vast majority of people who have ever lived can testify to this. People had sex, had relationships and loved hundreds of years before the Qur'an was written. Therefore the fact the Qur'an says it is not special.
Original post by al_mohajer
about Jesus: ( many verses about Isa=Jesus), I'm copying two only:
O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.
O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God: glory be to Him: (far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
That they said (in boast), "We killed Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam, the Messenger of Allah"; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not.
This is a very odd thing to say to convince me of anything for a number of reasons.
1) The quote as you presented it has a number of factual errors. e.g
' Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God' - This heavily implies that the Christian use of 'Trinity' is wrong because Christians are somehow affirming that there are three Gods - and the Qur'an goes on to 'correct' them by saying 'for Allah is One God'. But this is a wholly inaccurate depiction of what Christians actually believe. Although you will undoubtedly try to dispute it, the fact is that Christians do believe in one God - this was affirmed by the First Council of Nicaea in 325 AD - several hundred years before the Qur'an. So the Qur'an cannot make this claim without being inaccurate.
'(far Exalted is He) above having a son' - the only way you can 'have' is biologically, and this is wrong. No Christian believes this. If you understood why Christians used the word 'son', you'll realise it's laughable to suggest such a thing - again see the first council of nicaea.
2) Why do you think I care about Jesus? Contrary to what it looks like above, I'm not actually Christian. I do not care in the slightest what competing claims Christianity/Islam make about Jesus. That's for you to argue with Christians.
Original post by al_mohajer
about the creation of human being:
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth in pairs.
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (Our Power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much). And (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth in pairs.
All I see is mostly vague descriptions related to things which can be observed, and some parts that just don't make sense.
''and some are sent back to the feeblest old age' - some of us grow old? No ****.
You tell me, what impresses you about this?
Original post by al_mohajer
there are many things in this book which was written 1400 years ago. many things beyond your understanding, beyond your grasp.
If you could actually hear yourself - you sound ridiculous.
God I want to punch all these ****ing Muslims on here that are telling him to feel guilty. Please please don't listen to them. There is nothing wrong about how you feel. Please don't let religion get in the way of accepting yourself the way you are. Because there is nothing wrong with you. You're not hurting anyone are you? No. Then there is nothing immoral going on here. I know it will be hard given your background but I really think you will eventually be able to accepting yourself and enjoying life. Don't let anybody, Muslim or otherwise make you feel guilty about your sexuality. No one.
Original post by jam277
Yeah I'm bi is basically I'm gay but don't want to admit it yet.
Out of curiosity, what makes you think you are gay and not bi? What made you think you were bi in the first place? I'm just curious about how these things work
Feel free to pm me if you don't want to talk about it on here Original post by al_mohajer
Muslims are human being. They are not different from others.
let me ask you this ... Now all Christan people follow their religion, Christianity.
Islam comes to discipline our manners, to challenge ourselves to control our desires, our whims. Definitely Some will fail, and Islam make a choice of repentance. God forgive everything even committing Sodomy, but he never forgive that you worship someone beside him.
And, Sodomy mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago before you knew it or you might has lust for it.
let me ask you this ... Now all Christan people follow their religion, Christianity.
Islam comes to discipline our manners, to challenge ourselves to control our desires, our whims. Definitely Some will fail, and Islam make a choice of repentance. God forgive everything even committing Sodomy, but he never forgive that you worship someone beside him.
And, Sodomy mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago before you knew it or you might has lust for it.
I'm not saying that God does not forgive its people. Allah loves to forgive but those people who repent from their mistakes. Who follow the right path after realizing their mistakes. Allah does not forgives someone who is trying to commit a sin on purpose just to satisfy his needs and then when they are filled you expect Allah to forgive you?
Some people are just too stubborn to understand the facts and they just want to do what ever they want. I'm just trying to help here and to prove that Islam does not allow's this. If you keep on want to believe that fact that Allah will forgive you always after what ever you do to make him angry then I have nothing to say but except I hope Allah shows everyone the right path before its too late.
I'm guessing Allah is a homophobe. Made in the image of homophobic desert dwellers.
OP, you could find a more enlightened theology than the above, even within Islam. Not all Muslim theologies around today portray the God of the Universe as a homophobic bigot obsessed with what people do with their genitalia.
OP, you could find a more enlightened theology than the above, even within Islam. Not all Muslim theologies around today portray the God of the Universe as a homophobic bigot obsessed with what people do with their genitalia.
Original post by looseseal
This thread pretty much just consolidates my dislike of religion even further.
So much indoctrination and unnecessary guilt. I feel sorry for anyone who actually feels like there's a fictional being dictating what they can and can't do.
So much indoctrination and unnecessary guilt. I feel sorry for anyone who actually feels like there's a fictional being dictating what they can and can't do.
It should certainly be split into two 'actually helpful advice' and 'people who just disbelieve in one less god than I do arguing about their selective reading of a selective set of verses from a selected set of books' threads.
Original post by al_mohajer
Not fictional place. its reality. Where all of tyrant people will Go! people who killed others for sake of their own benifits?? people who enjoy oppressing others...
Quran mentions the day of judgment in many verses. I'm copying some :
And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it, or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves.
Those who reject Faith will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until the Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster.
Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow; nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).
The following verse exactly resmble what you are saying in your comment:
The Unbelievers say, "Never to us will come the Hour": say, "Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you; - by Him Who knows the unseen - from Whom is not hidden the least little atom in the Heavens or on earth: nor is there anything less than that, or greater, but is in the Record Perspicuous:
Quran mentions the day of judgment in many verses. I'm copying some :
And verily the Hour will come: there can be no doubt about it, or about (the fact) that Allah will raise up all who are in the graves.
Those who reject Faith will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until the Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster.
Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow; nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).
The following verse exactly resmble what you are saying in your comment:
The Unbelievers say, "Never to us will come the Hour": say, "Nay! but most surely, by my Lord, it will come upon you; - by Him Who knows the unseen - from Whom is not hidden the least little atom in the Heavens or on earth: nor is there anything less than that, or greater, but is in the Record Perspicuous:
*******s.
Original post by IndianDancer
Out of curiosity, what makes you think you are gay and not bi? What made you think you were bi in the first place? I'm just curious about how these things work Feel free to pm me if you don't want to talk about it on here
Feel free to pm me if you don't want to talk about it on here Na I'm not gay I'm heterosexual. I'm saying that in majority of my experiences, homosexuals tend to say they are bi first before saying they're full on gay. That's not to say all of them do that, but majority of bisexual people are really homosexual but don't want to admit it.
Not that I'll complain if there are actual bisexual girls. Means a threesome is on the cards.
Original post by TIATA
I don't think you understand the religion very well.
He's a Muslim, and like other Muslims he probably believes that life is a test from God. The test is different for different people. One person might be born blind, the other gay, and the other as a completely 'normal' person, but what they all have in common, according to Mainstream Islamic thought, is that they are being tested and will be judged.
Most Muslims would not blame him for being attracted to people of the same sex, but they would blame him for acting on those attractions as same-sex relations are forbidden in Islam.
That makes sense to me as an atheist. Why be part of the religion if you don't want to adhere to the rules?
That's why I think that AOP should leave the religion if he wants to engage in same-sex relations without guilt, but if wants to continue being accepted as a Muslim then he should obviously stop.
Whatever you do AOP, I hope you find happiness.
He's a Muslim, and like other Muslims he probably believes that life is a test from God. The test is different for different people. One person might be born blind, the other gay, and the other as a completely 'normal' person, but what they all have in common, according to Mainstream Islamic thought, is that they are being tested and will be judged.
Most Muslims would not blame him for being attracted to people of the same sex, but they would blame him for acting on those attractions as same-sex relations are forbidden in Islam.
That makes sense to me as an atheist. Why be part of the religion if you don't want to adhere to the rules?
That's why I think that AOP should leave the religion if he wants to engage in same-sex relations without guilt, but if wants to continue being accepted as a Muslim then he should obviously stop.
Whatever you do AOP, I hope you find happiness.
How can that make sense to you? Why create something with a fundamental 'mistake' and then expect it to work completley fine? Also, what is the need when you're almighty and you could simply make everyone perfect?
Also, if you really understood Islam you'd know that 'sinning' does not mean you're required to leave the Religion. Pretty sure the only person truly not considered a Muslim anymore is the one that doesnt pray but I'm fairly sure even that is up to debate.
Original post by Thechillyone
Not his fault god created him like this is it? If God has such a problem with it he's more than welcome to fix his mistake.
Bull**** no ones born gay or bi it's your environment that your surrounded in which makes you like that.
Original post by jam277
Not that I'll complain if there are actual bisexual girls. Means a threesome is on the cards.
No, it doesn't. Your attitude disgusts me.
Original post by Moh.1Ace
Bull**** no ones born gay or bi it's your environment that your surrounded in which makes you like that.
Says the person who is obviously not LGBT. How about you keep your mouth shut regarding matters you know nothing about?
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