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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    and we can critise him for that, but if he makes one person think of a new idea which they can back up logically it would be worth it
    Not if the idea is a misguided one! the last thing politics need is more misguided liberals or conservatives (though obviously i doubt Moore would ever produce many of the latter)If Moore himself cannot back up his ideas logically and factually what example does that set to anyone he would hope to inspire?
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    The thing with Michael Moore that I think is similar to the BNP is that he promotes rather radical views compared to the political status quo and groups like these tho we would rather not admit it are usefully in a way in our society as they prevent the stagnation of ideas and ensure the government in the various countries are on their toes on particular issues. This added attention on the Gov. is usefully for the whole of society as it reduces corruption. We can realise what are generalisations and errorerous statements that they make and ignore them but also look at why they believe certain issues are important.
    Michael Moore can be as extreme left as he likes, but just dont seek to deceive and lie to the public just so you can satisy your own sick hatred of the current president.

    the attitudes toward Moore and the BNP are vast. i cant see the majority of the UK running out to make an admittedly inaccurate BNP film the biggest grossing documentary, and then defending the inaccuracies in the national press.
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    Some vacation was a month off when his country was in a not going through one of their best periods in history.
    this month?

    ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico (CNN) -- In recent days, it's been hard to tell that President George W. Bush has been on vacation for this month of August. Yes, he's been spotted on the golf course at times, but other images have prevailed over pictures of the president engaged in summertime leisure activities.

    There he was on Wednesday reading a book to second graders in Albuquerque, and delivering a speech about his thoughts on education. He then planned to head to a job training center located in a predominantly Hispanic, working class part of town, before wrapping up a two day trip away from his vacation base -- his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

    On Tuesday, he helped out -- saw in hand -- with a fire prevention effort in Rocky Mountain National Park and lunched on barbecue with a group of YMCA day campers and their parents. There, Bush spoke about the importance of values and character.

    The president's work on the park trail symbolized his concern for the environment, and his focus on values and "Communities of Character" evokes the compassionate conservative themes of his campaign, after months of staking out positions that have alienated some moderate voters.

    And Bush has kept a full schedule, at a time of year when most Americans are clearing their calendars.

    A week ago, the president hammered nails at a Habitat for Humanity project in Waco, Texas, and delivered his first televised address to the nation on stem cell research. He has also applied his signature to an emergency farm funding bill, dressed, appropriately, in shirt sleeves and jeans.

    And, of course, there's always work to be done around the 1,600-acre Crawford ranch.

    Over the past week, Bush has been hard at work to ensure that America understands this is, indeed, a "working vacation" -- as his aides have described it -- as well as a return "Home to the Heartland" to commune with the nation. Never mind that news reports have noted this is the longest vacation taken by any recent president, or the pesky polls showing that a majority of Americans think it may be too long.

    "I like going to the Oval Office every day," he told a gathering of Republicans at a Denver fundraiser Tuesday night. "As you can imagine, walking into this great office is -- it's hard to describe how I feel every morning. But it's also important to get out and see the people, too. It's important to keep balance and perspective. We find that on our ranch in central Texas, and I find it as I travel the heartland."




    "Washington, D.C., is a fine place, and I'm honored to be working in the Oval Office, staying in the compound there," Bush said early Tuesday morning before teeing off for a round of golf near his ranch. "But I'm the kind of person that needs to get outdoors. I like to be outdoors, I like to work outdoors. It keeps my mind whole, it keeps my spirits up."
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    You should be worried too. Are you British?
    Hezbollah is offering to "help" with the distribution of Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911 in the Middle East. This is definately going to increase anti-western feelings in the Middle East and likely going to lead to the deaths of more civilians and British and American troops.
    Do you really think the middle east could have a worse impression of the US?

    Oh and I loved the "It's a constitutional right to have a gun" argument.

    OK USA you are the richest and most powerful country in the world, what 'rights' do you want to give your citizens?

    Adequate and afordable healthcare? Possibly even free healthcare? Free or subsidised education? No? you want a right to carry a gun. OK that makes complete sense.
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    (Original post by sashh)
    Do you really think the middle east could have a worse impression of the US?

    Oh and I loved the "It's a constitutional right to have a gun" argument.

    OK USA you are the richest and most powerful country in the world, what 'rights' do you want to give your citizens?

    Adequate and afordable healthcare? Possibly even free healthcare? Free or subsidised education? No? you want a right to carry a gun. OK that makes complete sense.
    bit unfair i'm sure americans want all of those not just the right to carry a gun
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    bit unfair i'm sure americans want all of those not just the right to carry a gun
    But they always state their "right to carry a gun", and as it's the richest country if they did want those things don't you think they'd happen?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    this month?

    ALBUQUERQUE, New Mexico (CNN) -- In recent days, it's been hard to tell that President George W. Bush has been on vacation for this month of August. Yes, he's been spotted on the golf course at times, but other images have prevailed over pictures of the president engaged in summertime leisure activities.

    There he was on Wednesday reading a book to second graders in Albuquerque, and delivering a speech about his thoughts on education. He then planned to head to a job training center located in a predominantly Hispanic, working class part of town, before wrapping up a two day trip away from his vacation base -- his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

    On Tuesday, he helped out -- saw in hand -- with a fire prevention effort in Rocky Mountain National Park and lunched on barbecue with a group of YMCA day campers and their parents. There, Bush spoke about the importance of values and character.

    The president's work on the park trail symbolized his concern for the environment, and his focus on values and "Communities of Character" evokes the compassionate conservative themes of his campaign, after months of staking out positions that have alienated some moderate voters.

    And Bush has kept a full schedule, at a time of year when most Americans are clearing their calendars.

    A week ago, the president hammered nails at a Habitat for Humanity project in Waco, Texas, and delivered his first televised address to the nation on stem cell research. He has also applied his signature to an emergency farm funding bill, dressed, appropriately, in shirt sleeves and jeans.

    And, of course, there's always work to be done around the 1,600-acre Crawford ranch.

    Over the past week, Bush has been hard at work to ensure that America understands this is, indeed, a "working vacation" -- as his aides have described it -- as well as a return "Home to the Heartland" to commune with the nation. Never mind that news reports have noted this is the longest vacation taken by any recent president, or the pesky polls showing that a majority of Americans think it may be too long.

    "I like going to the Oval Office every day," he told a gathering of Republicans at a Denver fundraiser Tuesday night. "As you can imagine, walking into this great office is -- it's hard to describe how I feel every morning. But it's also important to get out and see the people, too. It's important to keep balance and perspective. We find that on our ranch in central Texas, and I find it as I travel the heartland."




    "Washington, D.C., is a fine place, and I'm honored to be working in the Oval Office, staying in the compound there," Bush said early Tuesday morning before teeing off for a round of golf near his ranch. "But I'm the kind of person that needs to get outdoors. I like to be outdoors, I like to work outdoors. It keeps my mind whole, it keeps my spirits up."
    i stand corrected i blame biased media lol however i must say i do find it fairly ridiculous that a grown man (how old is he incedentally?) should feel the need to take naps in the afternoon
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    i do find it fairly ridiculous that a grown man (how old is he incedentally?) should feel the need to take naps in the afternoon
    the fact that he is the most powerful man in the world doesnt provide him with mitigating circumstances?

    Thatcher had 3 hours of sleep a day, personally im glad George knows whats best for him and thus, his decision making.

    58 in two days.
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    i do find it fairly ridiculous that a grown man (how old is he incedentally?) should feel the need to take naps in the afternoon
    Would you think the same if it was Clinton though? I think this just ties in conveniently with the common portrayal of George Bush as a complete fool with almost childlike intelligence. When he takes his naps are completely irrelevant, long-term vacations are another matter though.
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    (Original post by sashh)
    Do you really think the middle east could have a worse impression of the US?

    Oh and I loved the "It's a constitutional right to have a gun" argument.

    OK USA you are the richest and most powerful country in the world, what 'rights' do you want to give your citizens?

    Adequate and afordable healthcare? Possibly even free healthcare? Free or subsidised education? No? you want a right to carry a gun. OK that makes complete sense.
    Nothing is free! Someone pays for "free healthcare". More specifically the peopel who use it the least. America is one of the most capitalistic countries in the world meaning everyone is to decide what they want to spend their money on themselves. This is why the US has so low taxes, and consequentually spend less on merit goods per person.
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    (Original post by nan Siarich)
    Not if the idea is a misguided one! the last thing politics need is more misguided liberals or conservatives (though obviously i doubt Moore would ever produce many of the latter)If Moore himself cannot back up his ideas logically and factually what example does that set to anyone he would hope to inspire?
    When i used the word logically in that last quote I meant that it would not be misguided
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    Michael Moore can be as extreme left as he likes, but just dont seek to deceive and lie to the public just so you can satisy your own sick hatred of the current president.

    the attitudes toward Moore and the BNP are vast. i cant see the majority of the UK running out to make an admittedly inaccurate BNP film the biggest grossing documentary, and then defending the inaccuracies in the national press.
    if he is so extreme people will see that, its easy surely to refuse calms that are as false as you say

    The BNP vs Moore comparision was a noting of their political poisitions on the spectrum rather than a direct comparision of their support.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    Michael Moore can be as extreme left as he likes, but just dont seek to deceive and lie to the public just so you can satisy your own sick hatred of the current president.
    He may exagerate but he doesn't generally lie. While we are talking untruths are you really saying that throughout his entire presidancy Bush has never lied. Because if you are going to criticise Michael Moore for apparently lieing surely you should also condem Bush. There are much worse groups which have their message out there than moore that you could be worride about. Many members of the public like the films and books that Michael Moore has done informative. It is good to see a wide variety of view points and that includes Michael moores views but if you can't stand to watch him don't. I don't see why he can't hate the presitdent if he wants to. I mean the number of pro bush things there are around on the net and from what I have heard on US TV Moore will hopefully even it out a bit more.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    the fact that he is the most powerful man in the world doesnt provide him with mitigating circumstances?

    Thatcher had 3 hours of sleep a day, personally im glad George knows whats best for him and thus, his decision making.

    58 in two days.
    no it's worrying what happens if a crisis occurs and georgie is taking a nap. a notable example in history is adolf hitler who on the morning of d-day was asleep and since no one dared to wake him or carry out orders without his command the allied invasion was made much easier
    note: in no way am i making any comparison here between the political regimes of both leaders merely showing what naps can lead to
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    no it's worrying what happens if a crisis occurs and georgie is taking a nap. a notable example in history is adolf hitler who on the morning of d-day was asleep and since no one dared to wake him or carry out orders without his command the allied invasion was made much easier
    note: in no way am i making any comparison here between the political regimes of both leaders merely showing what naps can lead to
    are you kidding? you dont believe an aide would come and wake him? like they wake him every day? he's the president of the US in the 21st century. hes hardly going to have someone hung for disturbing him.
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    (Original post by BloodyValentine)
    no it's worrying what happens if a crisis occurs and georgie is taking a nap. a notable example in history is adolf hitler who on the morning of d-day was asleep and since no one dared to wake him or carry out orders without his command the allied invasion was made much easier
    note: in no way am i making any comparison here between the political regimes of both leaders merely showing what naps can lead to
    I agree with vienna95 someone would wake him up imediately
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    (Original post by randdom)
    He may exagerate but he doesn't generally lie. While we are talking untruths are you really saying that throughout his entire presidancy Bush has never lied. Because if you are going to criticise Michael Moore for apparently lieing surely you should also condem Bush. There are much worse groups which have their message out there than moore that you could be worride about. Many members of the public like the films and books that Michael Moore has done informative. It is good to see a wide variety of view points and that includes Michael moores views but if you can't stand to watch him don't. I don't see why he can't hate the presitdent if he wants to. I mean the number of pro bush things there are around on the net and from what I have heard on US TV Moore will hopefully even it out a bit more.
    i think that says a great deal for what you believe is good political debate. why dont we forget all this politics nonsense and just get the big brother house to run the country.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i think that says a great deal for what you believe is good political debate. we dont we forget all this politics nonsense and just get the big brother house to run the country.
    That would be a very scary world the people in there this year aren't the brightest. I find political debate very interesting. I do however feel that some times there are people who won't agree because there political views are so different.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    I agree with vienna95 someone would wake him up imediately
    i'm sure they would but it would take time however we are looking a fairly specific set of circumstances here so i accept defeat i shall go and console myself with farenheit 9/11 which has special 4th of july previews on today!!
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    (Original post by randdom)
    That would be a very scary world the people in there this year aren't the brightest. I find political debate very interesting. I do however feel that some times there are people who won't agree because there political views are so different.
    its not a case of whether i agree with Moore or not. i and others object to the manner in which it is done. his documentary is void of any rigorous theory or substance. he will distort and lie through his teeth in F9/11 because as he admits, he detests Bush so much. im all for criticism in politics, there are plenty of left wing commentators who can disagree with Bush policy in a fair and demonstrative way. Moore just wants to call Bush a monkey for 80+ minutes. god help those who find his work has any political value.
 
 
 
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