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Schools are not the problem . The solution is not free schools Watch

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWN0y5lstR4 skip to 6:00

    1) Many children come from unstable homes and under threat of eviction.

    2) These homes do not have an educational environment. Television and video games replace this, and Ipads.
    It's difficult to learn with the TV on all day.

    3) hungry children, on bad diets and go to school hungry

    4) Many children find it difficult to wake up for school, which is connected to point 2.

    5) it's difficult to learn when you started the day shouting and arguing with your parents. connected to point 4.

    6) Coming from homes that cannot afford the school uniform. This would affect the child emotionally.

    7) These homes are often cramped and small.
    A lack of privacy and lack of personal space is one of the top causes of anger and juvenile delinquency, obviously affecting the child's ability to learn.

    So, are the teachers to blame ? Is the school to blame ? No, not at all.
    Is the solution alternative schooling ? No.
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    It is definitely correct that society at the moment is very fond of blaming teachers for everything when a lot of the responsibility lies elsewhere. I don't think parents and households should get all the blame but it definitely is a factor.
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    Schools and parents are in it together honestly.

    But if I had a choice, I would rather a good parental upbringing than a better education.

    You need to understand that the public education system is an utter joke also.
    What do they do about:
    Bad behavior
    Mobile phones
    Swearing
    Bullying
    Sexual innuendos
    Lack of attendance
    Failure of completion of assignments
    Lack of respect
    They literally do nothing about it, private schools on the other hand, don't tolerate any of that.

    When you combine the faults in the public education system, and the faults of the child's parents, what do you get?

    A child which: lacks morals, is uneducated, works a ****ty job, and has a slutty girlfriend.
    For fun they: go clubbing, smoke weed, **** random sluts, and get drunk.

    If the education system took a shift we would have more people going to Universities and living healthier, happier lives.

    If parents were educated about how to raise a child, as if they belonged to the middle or upper class, it would be the same story, more people going to University and living healthier, happier lives.

    Why hasn't this happened?
    Well to keep the world in balance there needs to be a low, middle, and upper class.

    What would happen if everyone was middle or upper class? Supermarkets and fast-food stores would be empty, or to get a job there you would have needed to get a University qualifications. This would be because people would be busy getting jobs as teachers, lawyers, surgeons, dentists, Doctors, judges, etc.

    If everyone was apart of the upper class we would build robots to perform those frivolous duties for us, and our education system would be the best in the world.
    All it would take is lower and maybe middle class parents to accept that they are morons which don't know how to properly bring up a child, and to remove the idea of private/public schools, and instead have an everybody school.
    The everybody school would follow the basic principles of your top tier private school.
    All the aforementioned things which are omnipresent in the public school system would be addressed and dealt with.

    But for this change to happen, it would take at least 70-100 years.
    And I think people like the idea of having an lower, middle, and upper class, just so they feel superior...

    I think if this change went through, there would be an interval where getting jobs at a petrol station etc would be increasingly hard, due to more and more people becoming educated and getting university qualifications.

    In this world if you are your typical pleb which can only think of weed, sex, drugs, and alcohol you will be left on the dole, or maybe left to live independently, without work to support yourself; having to live in the wild like an aboriginal, and catch your own food, and getting water to drink from the river, etc, etc.
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    (Original post by HiLOL8952)
    ...
    At the point where I thought your post couldn't get any more offensive you crowbarred some racism into your last sentence. I expect this means you are a troll rather than a hopelessly ignorant waste of space.
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    (Original post by Mr M)
    At the point where I thought your post couldn't get any more offensive you crowbarred some racism into your last sentence. I expect this means you are a troll rather than a hopelessly ignorant waste of space.
    PRSOM

    I couldn't find the words
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    I don't believe hungry children, on 4 or 5 hours of sleep a night, in dirty school uniforms can be educated or reach their potential at all.

    These are difficult subjects that no politician wants to talk about, because the parents, or lack of them are to blame.

    Revising for exams in a cold, damp council flat with mentally ill, unemployed parents to look after, I don't know how anyone could blame the school.
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BN7ml6b-e4

    this sums it up

    that kid couldn't even afford socks
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...hool-episode-1

    another great documentary on bad school children
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWN0y5lstR4 skip to 6:00

    1) Many children come from unstable homes and under threat of eviction.

    2) These homes do not have an educational environment. Television and video games replace this, and Ipads.
    It's difficult to learn with the TV on all day.

    3) hungry children, on bad diets and go to school hungry

    4) Many children find it difficult to wake up for school, which is connected to point 2.

    5) it's difficult to learn when you started the day shouting and arguing with your parents. connected to point 4.

    6) Coming from homes that cannot afford the school uniform. This would affect the child emotionally.

    7) These homes are often cramped and small.
    A lack of privacy and lack of personal space is one of the top causes of anger and juvenile delinquency, obviously affecting the child's ability to learn.

    So, are the teachers to blame ? Is the school to blame ? No, not at all.
    Is the solution alternative schooling ? No.
    No, schools aren't doing anything wrong as such with regards to their student's home problems, but that's not the same as saying that there'e nothing extra they could be doing.

    Many schools have attached pupil referral units, or curriculum support programs, or have on-site social workers. Things like that are above and beyond what the school's primary aim is supposed to be, but there's no doubting that they do do a lot of good for the pupils affected. An awful lot of free schools are specifically set up to focus on issues like these (they might make a point of hiring teachers experienced at dealing with disadvantaged pupils, for example), and if more can be encouraged to do the same then I think that can only be a good thing.
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    I agree with you, broadly speaking. I do wonder how you would explain the observation that despite all this, many children manage to do quite well at primary school, but then fail at secondary school? Obviously the school environment must play a role there?
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    (Original post by democracyforum)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWN0y5lstR4 skip to 6:00

    1) Many children come from unstable homes and under threat of eviction.

    2) These homes do not have an educational environment. Television and video games replace this, and Ipads.
    It's difficult to learn with the TV on all day.

    3) hungry children, on bad diets and go to school hungry

    4) Many children find it difficult to wake up for school, which is connected to point 2.

    5) it's difficult to learn when you started the day shouting and arguing with your parents. connected to point 4.

    6) Coming from homes that cannot afford the school uniform. This would affect the child emotionally.

    7) These homes are often cramped and small.
    A lack of privacy and lack of personal space is one of the top causes of anger and juvenile delinquency, obviously affecting the child's ability to learn.

    So, are the teachers to blame ? Is the school to blame ? No, not at all.
    Is the solution alternative schooling ? No.
    Poor parenting is the problem in my opinion.
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    (Original post by llys)
    I agree with you, broadly speaking. I do wonder how you would explain the observation that despite all this, many children manage to do quite well at primary school, but then fail at secondary school? Obviously the school environment must play a role there?
    Secondary school is:

    a) more demanding

    b) requires that you work at home far more than primary

    c) the biology and social behaviour of teenagers does not make them as open to learning as a primary kid might be
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Secondary school is:

    a) more demanding

    b) requires that you work at home far more than primary

    c) the biology and social behaviour of teenagers does not make them as open to learning as a primary kid might be
    Indeed. It's a completely different environment and a huge jump, imo.

    Parents not being able to afford school uniform is partly the fault of the school. I know that for many schools, thye only have one supplier, which is expensive. And when your child needs uniform every year, (because they grow) it becomes expensive. I remember in primary school, we had a choice of the school sweatshirt or a plain blue jumper. In secondary school, we had to have the school jumper, which didn't last long. And then there was the PE kit, which was expensive.
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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Secondary school is:

    a) more demanding

    b) requires that you work at home far more than primary

    c) the biology and social behaviour of teenagers does not make them as open to learning as a primary kid might be
    I agree with a), but I'm assuming these children are not all inherently stupid, so it shouldn't matter.

    b) Can definitely be fixed by the school (compulsory homework clubs after school, if indeed homework is considered necessary).

    And while c) cannot be eliminated, it can at least be affected by the school (a positive learning environment and behaviour policy is established by the school).

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of the OP, and I definitely do not think free schools are the answer, but I do think schools can have a very positive influence on these children / I don't think these children should just be written off with "it's impossible for schools to do anything".
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    (Original post by llys)
    I agree with a), but I'm assuming these children are not all inherently stupid, so it shouldn't matter.

    b) Can definitely be fixed by the school (compulsory homework clubs after school, if indeed homework is considered necessary).

    And while c) cannot be eliminated, it can at least be affected by the school (a positive learning environment and behaviour policy is established by the school).

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with most of the OP, and I definitely do not think free schools are the answer, but I do think schools can have a very positive influence on these children / I don't think these children should just be written off with "it's impossible for schools to do anything".
    a) Yes it matters because it means that low ability kids will need more time and effort to achieve a particular grade. You don't need to be stupid to struggle.

    b) How idealistic. Not all schools might be able to afford homework clubs every day for every single academic year. Yet this is what is needed if schools were to follow your idea.

    c) You are very naive if you think you can significantly affect biological drives and social background with "positive" learning environment and behaviour policies in such a way that academic performance is not affected. The data is out there and the data tells you that social background is pretty much unaffected by the policies and positive learning environments in most schools. As to the biology, I have not seen data on it, but last time I checked, school had no significant effect on the spike of impulsivity and lack of detailed thinking that, according to scientific evidence, peaks during teenage years.

    No one said, schools should do nothing (which is what you are suggesting). If you have any knowledge of the sector, you will know that many schools do bend themselves backwards to provide for kids who suffer from significant parental neglect. There should be a close monitoring on parenting the way there is on schools. Malnutrition (as in going to school without eating a breakfast), lack of proper clothing, abuse, lack of learning environment (as in doing the recommended parent-son reading and museum trip) and studying environment at home (as in having a chair and table to work on as well as a relatively silent room) is likely to account for the difference in performance in kids.

    Believing that school can sort out these factors is delusional. A kid's education is a two-player co-op game. You cannot win unless both parties do their part. And currently that is not happening for kids of particular backgrounds.
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    While I agree that poor domestic environmental factors play a role in educational under-achievement I still think that the biggest area of concern with regards to education is the focus on training children to be mindless worker drones built solely to be economic cogs rather than fostering an attitude to learning and a focus on creativity that will prove far more valuable in solving the challenged facing our species now and in the future.
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    (Original post by democracyforum)

    So, are the teachers to blame ? Is the school to blame ? No, not at all.
    Is the solution alternative schooling ? No.
    Do you know the Irish joke:

    A man gets lost and asks a labourer for directions in rural Ireland. The local replies "Begorrah your worship, I wouldn't start from here if I were you".

    Whenever you ask an education professional about improving education, that is always the answer, start somewhere else.



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    (Original post by Juichiro)
    Secondary school is:

    a) more demanding

    b) requires that you work at home far more than primary

    c) the biology and social behaviour of teenagers does not make them as open to learning as a primary kid might be
    I agree with you..
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    (Original post by HiLOL8952)
    Schools and parents are in it together honestly.

    But if I had a choice, I would rather a good parental upbringing than a better education.

    You need to understand that the public education system is an utter joke also.
    What do they do about:
    Bad behavior
    Mobile phones
    Swearing
    Bullying
    Sexual innuendos
    Lack of attendance
    Failure of completion of assignments
    Lack of respect
    They literally do nothing about it, private schools on the other hand, don't tolerate any of that.

    When you combine the faults in the public education system, and the faults of the child's parents, what do you get?

    A child which: lacks morals, is uneducated, works a ****ty job, and has a slutty girlfriend.
    For fun they: go clubbing, smoke weed, **** random sluts, and get drunk.

    If the education system took a shift we would have more people going to Universities and living healthier, happier lives.

    If parents were educated about how to raise a child, as if they belonged to the middle or upper class, it would be the same story, more people going to University and living healthier, happier lives.

    Why hasn't this happened?
    Well to keep the world in balance there needs to be a low, middle, and upper class.

    What would happen if everyone was middle or upper class? Supermarkets and fast-food stores would be empty, or to get a job there you would have needed to get a University qualifications. This would be because people would be busy getting jobs as teachers, lawyers, surgeons, dentists, Doctors, judges, etc.

    If everyone was apart of the upper class we would build robots to perform those frivolous duties for us, and our education system would be the best in the world.
    All it would take is lower and maybe middle class parents to accept that they are morons which don't know how to properly bring up a child, and to remove the idea of private/public schools, and instead have an everybody school.
    The everybody school would follow the basic principles of your top tier private school.
    All the aforementioned things which are omnipresent in the public school system would be addressed and dealt with.

    But for this change to happen, it would take at least 70-100 years.
    And I think people like the idea of having an lower, middle, and upper class, just so they feel superior...

    I think if this change went through, there would be an interval where getting jobs at a petrol station etc would be increasingly hard, due to more and more people becoming educated and getting university qualifications.

    In this world if you are your typical pleb which can only think of weed, sex, drugs, and alcohol you will be left on the dole, or maybe left to live independently, without work to support yourself; having to live in the wild like an aboriginal, and catch your own food, and getting water to drink from the river, etc, etc.
    Sorry but Private school isn't the answer (you may be hinting at that but I'm not really sure) cause i for one know many private school kinds (and i quote) Are children which: lacks morals, are uneducated, work a ****ty job, and have a slutty girlfriends.For fun they: go clubbing, smoke weed, **** random sluts, and get drunk.
    Generalisation are a serious problem
 
 
 
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