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14-year-old has abortion without mother's consent watch

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    (Original post by vienna95)
    i think someone like Rebecca Hagelin might disagree there. the statistics supporting pro-abstinence education are huge..

    sorry, Bigcnee, wrong quote..
    It's not often I mind myself agreeing with you. It's a rather hollow feeling.
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    (Original post by hattori)
    Rubbish! Im never without my "heat" in a violin case.

    Anyways, what do you all think about the people who say we should just accept that 14 year olds have sex?

    I think people who reckon 14 year olds can be trusted to protect themselves from stds and pregnancy are bonkers.
    Agreed.
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    The mother obviously failed her child in this case. The mother would of found out if the child trusted her and that trust comes far before the child reaches 14, it comes from a whole upbringing and the way the child precieves her parents. If the child had been brought up in such a way that she could of trusted her mother then the mother would of found out and everyone would of been happy.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    So your parents are, in effect, as bad as those who would make their son/daughter keep their child.
    Perhaps, however bear in my mind parents are english, and the culture they grew up in was vastly different. And I would never want a child at my age, I wouldn't be stupid enough to fall pregnant <fingers crossed>. I would definitely give away the child by choice.
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    Fantastic that Mansfield is in the news.

    Shame that it couldn't be about something more positive.

    Not exactly great publicity for Brunts School either.
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    (Original post by Expression)
    Fantastic that Mansfield is in the news.

    Shame that it couldn't be about something more positive.

    Not exactly great publicity for Brunts School either.
    your former school?
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    your former school?
    Nope. But I have been there before to officiate basketball matches. And we beat them at our place in sudden death at the Science Quiz in 1999 .
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    The mother obviously failed her child in this case. The mother would of found out if the child trusted her and that trust comes far before the child reaches 14, it comes from a whole upbringing and the way the child precieves her parents. If the child had been brought up in such a way that she could of trusted her mother then the mother would of found out and everyone would of been happy.

    You are making a judgement on the relationship between the mother and her daughter without even knowing them!

    All people (including you) make your views known on your opinions. Consider that the mother may feel that abortion is wrong - many do. The daughter will then be confused about what she should do now that she is pregnant. I would say that most girls who fall pregnant when they don't want to be would panic - she panicked and instead of turning to her mother went to someone who knew nothing about her. This person then referred her to the source of procuring an abortion.

    I would be incandescent with rage if I were her mother. She is her primary carer and as such has a moral right to be involved in the decision.

    There will be a real backlash against this from all mums and I would say, rightly so.

    These health advisors might be paid as professionals but mums' are the experts on their kids.

    Ask your mum.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    You are making a judgement on the relationship between the mother and her daughter without even knowing them!

    All people (including you) make your views known on your opinions. Consider that the mother may feel that abortion is wrong - many do. The daughter will then be confused about what she should do now that she is pregnant. I would say that most girls who fall pregnant when they don't want to be would panic - she panicked and instead of turning to her mother went to someone who knew nothing about her. This person then referred her to the source of procuring an abortion.

    I would be incandescent with rage if I were her mother. She is her primary carer and as such has a moral right to be involved in the decision.

    There will be a real backlash against this from all mums and I would say, rightly so.

    These health advisors might be paid as professionals but mums' are the experts on their kids.

    Ask your mum.
    Your right i am making a judgement based on my limited experience and i totally acknowledge that there are faults in that. However if was faced with a difficult situation my parents would be one of the first groups to find out. If a parent truely loves a child she will try to help the child whatever has happened and what ever her personally views on the subject or do you disagree with that?

    The girl obviously didnt feel she could rely on her mother for support which is why she went to the school. That to me shows mistakes in bring up that child in the fact she looked for others for support.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Your right i am making a judgement based on my limited experience and i totally acknowledge that there are faults in that. However if was faced with a difficult situation my parents would be one of the first groups to find out. If a parent truely loves a child she will try to help the child whatever has happened and what ever her personally views on the subject or do you disagree with that?

    The girl obviously didnt feel she could rely on her mother for support which is why she went to the school. That to me shows mistakes in bring up that child in the fact she looked for others for support.
    You haven't considered the point I made about misconceptions on the part of people when they know the viewpoints of others.

    Let's presume that the mother had said to others that she disagreed with abortion. The daughter knowing this would presume that the mother might not be best pleased with her news - in the event the mum said she would have supported her daughter with the pregnancy.

    In her turmoil she went to a stranger who knew nothing about her and in the arrogance of her job arranged for the abortifacient to be administered.

    That does not in any way mean that the mother has made a mistake in bringing up her daughter, does it?

    You presume just as the health worker presumed and to me that is a grave failing of the Act.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    You haven't considered the point I made about misconceptions on the part of people when they know the viewpoints of others.

    Let's presume that the mother had said to others that she disagreed with abortion. The daughter knowing this would presume that the mother might not be best pleased with her news - in the event the mum said she would have supported her daughter with the pregnancy.

    In her turmoil she went to a stranger who knew nothing about her and in the arrogance of her job arranged for the abortifacient to be administered.

    That does not in any way mean that the mother has made a mistake in bringing up her daughter, does it?

    You presume just as the health worker presumed and to me that is a grave failing of the Act.
    (Original post by Speciez99)
    If a parent truely loves a child she will try to help the child whatever has happened and what ever her personal views on the subject or do you disagree with that?
    I did address your point
    I have to say I am not particularly fussed about the health workers since if they were component they would of explained the pros and cons of all the possible actions.
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    You say that if a mother truly loves her child she will support her.

    The mother has no chance to do that as the deed was carried out without her knowledge!
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    You say that if a mother truly loves her child she will support her.

    The mother has no chance to do that as the deed was carried out without her knowledge!
    She would of told her mother presumably if she trusted her.
    Your point to counter this as far as i can tell is that the child might of been put off by the personnal views of the mother (ie if she thought abortion was evil)
    My point is that if she really loved her child she would be able to put her personnal views aside for that. The bond of trust is developed at a far younger age, and it because that this was missing that the child at 14 decided not to tell her mother. If the mother had brought up her child in a better way that child would have that trust and then the mother would be more of an assest in the decision making process.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    She would of told her mother presumably if she trusted her.
    Your point to counter this as far as i can tell is that the child might of been put off by the personnal views of the mother (ie if she thought abortion was evil)
    My point is that if she really loved her child she would be able to put her personnal views aside for that. The bond of trust is developed at a far younger age, and it because that this was missing that the child at 14 decided not to tell her mother. If the mother had brought up her child in a better way that child would have that trust and then the mother would be more of an assest in the decision making process.
    Who is it who says...'you presume too much'?

    Your point about the mother being able to put her personal views aside if she really loved her child discounts the fact that she was not given the opportunity to do so.

    If I had a son, say, and I had always said I was against theft, and he stole something - does that mean I would not support him (and did not love him) during any punishment that may be metered out if he was caught? No it doesn't.

    You come out with all these sentimental, self-righteous judgements saying things like 'bonds of trust are formed at an early age' - we are all formed by the opinions of our parents - we are like them -these are the things that form 'bonds of trust'.

    The fact that the child wanted to keep the baby after discussing it with her mother illustrates to me that the mother/child relationship is a lot stronger than the health worker would like to think (perhaps as a justification of his/her actions.)
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    Look everyone. The Girl decided she did not want to tell her mother, and that was her choice. If the girl did not feel she could have the baby then noone, not even the mother, is to decide otherwise for her. I am not saying that she avoided telling her mother because she had a bad mother, nor am I saying it was necessarily teh best thing to do, BUT you can still not blaim the girl for making the decision on her own. The right of parents to make medical decisions for their chidlren til teh age of 16 is there in order to protect the children from their own actions. It is NOT meant to be there so that parents can decide how the kids are to live their lives.

    That you as a parent have a right to interfere means that you also have a responsibility not to abuse that right. If the mother is mad at her daughter because her personal views are against abortion, then she has already neglected this responsibility. The right of a parent to interfere is not supposed to allow the parents to make decisions where they put their political and moral objectives in front of the interests of the children. Just as it would be wrong of me to overide my chidlrens decisions as to which religion / view of life they shall follow it is wrong of teh mother to decide that her daughter should not have an abortion based on her personal ethical and political views.

    As a parent she can help her kid to make decisions, but she is not to expose her daughter to the public as a punishment for making a perfectly legal decision based on her own judgement. Specially not when the consequences of not making that decision could be sewere medical complications for her daughter.
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    (Original post by yawn1)

    If I had a son, say, and I had always said I was against theft, and he stole something - does that mean I would not support him (and did not love him) during any punishment that may be metered out if he was caught? No it doesn't.
    Having an abortion is not illegal. To expose someone to great psychological stress as a punsihment for not sharing yoru political and ethical views is. I can undertsand if teh mopther is angry because her daughetr did not consult her, but do not have any symphathy whatsoever for her punishing her daughter by exposing ehr to teh media, on teh basis that she had an abortion. In my view, the mother has put her political and ethical views in front of teh interest of her child. Going through a pregnency can be a great risk, specially when you are only 14 years old. If I disagree with christianity, that doesnt give me a right to severely punish my child for praying to god without my consent. There is a difference between raising yoru child within what is normal morla standards, and to impose your own ethical and political views upon them. Abortion is not something which is commonly accepted as immoral, and so the mother has nor ight to punish her daughetr for disagreeing with her.
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    (Original post by yawn1)
    Who is it who says...'you presume too much'?

    Your point about the mother being able to put her personal views aside if she really loved her child discounts the fact that she was not given the opportunity to do so.
    I don't know who did say that?

    Thankyou for finally realising what i have been saying all along, she was a bad mother. She wasn't given the chance since the child didnt feel she could trust her mother = bad parenting.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    She wasn't given the chance since the child didnt feel she could trust her mother = bad parenting.
    It's not that black and white.
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    (Original post by Bigcnee)
    It's not that black and white.
    would you like to explian why you think that?
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    would you like to explian why you think that?
    Yep..

    You can't say that bad parenting was the reason for the daughter not telling her mother about her pregnancy.

    a) It is natural for children to keep secrets from their parents.
    b) The mother may have made her feelings on abortion known to her daughter, thus increasing the daughters anxiety about informing her mother. I think mysticmin pointed the other side of this with: "my parents would disown me".
    c) Relationships are complex. We don't know the reasons that the daughter didn't tell her mother. Can one media interview account for the 14 years that the daughter has been with her mother? I think not....

    I think that if the shoe was on the other foot, i.e. the daughter decided not to have an abortion and her mother was complaining that this decision was going to ruin her life - you wouldn't be making half the fuss.
 
 
 
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