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14-year-old has abortion without mother's consent

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Bigcnee

Yep..

You can't say that bad parenting was the reason for the daughter not telling her mother about her pregnancy.

a) It is natural for children to keep secrets from their parents.
b) The mother may have made her feelings on abortion known to her daughter, thus increasing the daughters anxiety about informing her mother. I think mysticmin pointed the other side of this with: "my parents would disown me".
c) Relationships are complex. We don't know the reasons that the daughter didn't tell her mother. Can one media interview account for the 14 years that the daughter has been with her mother? I think not....

I think that if the shoe was on the other foot, i.e. the daughter decided not to have an abortion and her mother was complaining that this decision was going to ruin her life - you wouldn't be making half the fuss.

1. I think that most teenage girls think that decisions over abortions are more than mearly a secret, if she wants advice i would of thought that her mother would of been one of the first places to call.
2. And i think that is bad parenting too, how can you possably help someone if you are unprepared to be forgiving of what they may have done
3.Agreed and i am only speculating

No i disagree with the last bit, the media might not be making the same fuss however to me the principle would remain.

Reply 101

Do Chickens Fly

For the girl there were 2 options:
1. Try to have the child
2. Abort the child

1 cannot be done without external help, as she is not financially (nor legally) independent. Thus 1 requires the service of those controlling her finances, her parents. This, morally is questionable, as how can she rightfully ask her parent to support her with something she was never asked to do and was indeed illegal to do.

2 is simple and harms noone but herself. Yes, the argument that the embryo is harmed is valid; from a legal perspective it is irrelevant as abortion in this case was not illegal. Thus 2 hurts no external party and also does not ask for the service of anyone, beyond what they are required to provide.

From this, 2 would be the best solution if it agrees with the girl's wishes. Any reaction from her parents cannot be justified from the POV that they could have made a better decision for the child; 2 is always the simplest and least demanding solution - and no decision for the benefit of the girl can meaningfully be made without consulting the girl. I suggest this is the only POV that matters and anything else constitutes an abuse of the power associated with the position of being a parent.

Reply 102

me!

Abortion isn't killing the child though, because at that stage they're not a stage, with that arguement saying that abortion is killing a child you could say the same everytime a woman has her period (if you get what I mean), at that stage they're still just cells.

If I had been in that situation I would have probably kept the baby though because in a way I couldn't let that baby go because I would never know how it was destined to do in the world or anything about it's future... The baby would have every opportunity that every other kid has, I'd make sure of that, I'd suffer though and my life or future as I've planned it to be would be ruined... I don't know what I'd do actually, but whatever option would totally mess up my head.

That poor girl must be going through hell, but what about the father? Everything is blamed on the girl but what about the boy? If she's had kept the baby he would have probably walked away from the situation...

Reply 103

Bigcnee

me!

Your argument is invalid because you seem to have assumed that:

a) At all stages of pregnancy, the child is the same.
b) The child cannot survive outside the womb until it is born.

Reply 104

DivideByZero

Bigcnee, you need to learn what a human actually is, instead of surrounding it with your own unfalsifiable beliefs that not everybody shares. You obviously assume that humans have some sort of absolute inherent rights, just for being humans, so your argument is just as invalid as me!'s argument.

The fact is, there is no evidence for what you are implying at all. It is only your personal faith that you are using for your debate here.

Reply 105

Bigcnee

DivideByZero

I don't know how you can presume to know my thoughts on abortion.

Reply 106

DivideByZero

Bigcnee

I don't know how you can presume to know my thoughts on abortion.

This is how (notice what it says in bold):

Bigcnee

I think abortion is morally wrong.

Bigcnee

2) In a nutshell, it is legalised murder.

Bigcnee

This is literally true - we are all just a bunch of cells, but it makes a serious issue appear trivial.

Bigcnee

The abortion laws are so abused these days.... it is sickening.

You've made your thoughts quite clear on numerous occasions. Not in this thread alone, but in others too. If this is not quite how it sounds, then why are you being so vauge in expressing your views? It almost gives me the impression that you are arguing AGAINST abortion :rolleyes:

The fact is, there is no evidence to suggest that abortion is 'morally wrong'. I agree that it is murder, but this does not make it 'wrong' just because we are human. We are a bunch of cells at every stage of our development, and there is no reason to believe that blowing up those bunch of cells is 'morally wrong' at all. If you believe this, it is nothing other than faith. Now, forgive me for getting this impression from you, as though you havn't made it obvious, but you are using this faith to argue that your viewpoints are correct. No wonder you don't sound convincing to me - lack of evidence never is.

In this very thread, it appears to me (forgive me if I am wrong) that you are holding your unfalisifiable ethical and moral beliefs in mind when you argue things like:

Bigcnee

Is that a concrete reason for ending the childs shot at life?

Bigcnee

FYI.. when you kill the child, the child has NO future.

Bigcnee

Cruel.

Now, if your intent here was not to imply that it is wrong to abort, please don't be so vauge in future with your replies. Otherwise, people like me, and many others, will get the wrong end of the stick.

Reply 107

Bigcnee

DivideByZero

This is how (notice what it says in bold):
You've made your thoughts quite clear on numerous occasions. Not in this thread alone, but in others too. If this is not quite how it sounds, then why are you being so vauge in expressing your views? It almost gives me the impression that you are arguing AGAINST abortion :rolleyes:

I wasn't aware you were referring to threads outside this thread, so fair enough.

I am vehemently opposed to abortion. I believe that our pursuit of personal freedom has ultimately led to the oppression of other human rights.

I find it amusing how you say:

"There is no evidence to suggest that abortion is morally wrong"

What does this even mean? Why does evidence have to come into morals? Morals aren't concrete objects, they vary from person to person. Thus, when I say that it is morally wrong, I am alluding to my own personal views.

Other than that, I can't really respond to your post as it just seems to be criticising my way of arguing, rather than my beliefs. So, unless you have anything useful to say on abortion yourself, then I suggest you refrain from criticising me.

Reply 108

randdom

Bigcnee

I am vehemently opposed to abortion. I believe that our pursuit of personal freedom has ultimately led to the oppression of other human rights.

Are you opposed to all abortion in any situation or just that we now live in a society where it is so easy to get an abortion. Personally I don't particularly like the idea of what abortion is. I deffinately don't like the fact that abortions can be carried out as late as they are. But I do think that in some situation the rights of the mother have to held above the rights of the feotus. I do however think that after about 12 weeks it should be made considerably harder to get an abortion after this period I think the mother should be physically at risk or the baby should be at a stage where it is going to have a considerably lower quality of life (there should be guidelines on this).

Reply 109

Bigcnee

randdom

I think there is a strong argument for in cases of rape, but due to the way the law works (i.e gradual relaxation) it is near impossible to keep this as the only condition. Thus, I am against all forms of abortion. I am, however, disgusted by the ease of which abortions are available.