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    I'm doing an EEE degree, so it's quite interlinked with CS in the sense that it is probably the engineering discipline where there's a lot of programming involved for obvious reasons.

    Problem is, I don't enjoy programming. I just feel I can't understand it (C) and I can't get myself to put that much attention into programming as I can in one of my other modules like Electromagnetics/power electronics or more physicsy kind of modules. I even enjoy doing maths, but programming is just something I detest really.

    I know it's really important to be able to code. I've heard all the talk that 'there are two types of people in this world: coders and non coders', and that does want me to try and enjoy programming, but unfortunately I just don't like it. I don't know what it is - the ability to think in a logical way? I don't think I have that inside me lol, having a rigorous step by step algorithmic approach.

    But if you give me problem questions to do, I love doing those sorts of things.

    Is there anyone like me who can share their experiences? Obviously I have to do programming because it is essential but it's just I won't be good at it, and I don't want to be looked down upon in the future after I graduate on my limited programming skills.
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    I don't enjoy programming either because its boring and tedious. I am decent enough at it and can build applications no problem but its not something that I wake up dreaming to do because its so interesting. With web development this is different. I really enjoy that because you are allowed to express yourself more in terms of the creativity side of things. I am however more theoretical and enjoy the thought process of it all, the working it out, the planning, trying to understand things and creating solutions to problems already out there. I enjoy the mathematical element which is why I took artificial intelligence modules at university.

    Honestly, I wouldn't say programming is everything but I would say being able to think in a logical way is almost everything. I've known people who can program but are terrible when it comes to problem solving away from a computer. I'd go as far as to say at times I hate programming. Give me a book on cryptography or artificial intelligence however and I could read with interest for days and days. I'd say you don't have to enjoy it but be prepared to do something you don't enjoy for the overall good. There were elements of my course I didn't enjoy but did doing those modules benefit me in the long run? Most definitely.
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    It's not for everyone. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it.
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    There are two types of people in the world: those who believe in this crap and those who understand that there are at least fifty shades of grey in between.

    Programming will get easier as you get better at it. The more time you put in the better it will get - to a certain extent. I love programming. I do an awful lot of it, first taught myself at age 13 and the learning never ends. These days I'm plugging away at just a couple of very large codebases and always on the lookout for ways to improve my code quality.


    It sounds as though your biggest problem is that you never truly nailed the fundamentals. Until you go back and get those sorted out, no matter how much complex material you try to practice on, you'll always be ropey. I'd suggest picking up a good introductory book and reading it front to back. I hate the way most universities teach the course where everything's focused on assignments and there's no suggestion to ever read the book, just fiddle your way through with barely a shred of understanding of what's going on. Learning to program is a fine balancing act between reading the theory and trying it in practice. I think you're too heavy on the practice right now, and you need to read (and I mean actually read, not just skim through "yeah, yeah, I know all this" an introductory book at the same time as you program your university assignments).

    Then you'll pick up all of the theory, functions, groundwork, tips of the trade, set methods, etc. and suddenly programming will become a lot easier. As for fun? Who knows. That depends on your personality and whether it gels. But something you find very hard and confusing is unlikely to be fun. Something you find stimulating but possible might well be.

    My advice is that you need to weave a better line between theory and practice - and you need to steer a little bit back towards the theory right now.
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    (Original post by Lord Baelish)
    I don't enjoy programming either because its boring and tedious. I am decent enough at it and can build applications no problem but its not something that I wake up dreaming to do because its so interesting. With web development this is different. I really enjoy that because you are allowed to express yourself more in terms of the creativity side of things. I am however more theoretical and enjoy the thought process of it all, the working it out, the planning, trying to understand things and creating solutions to problems already out there. I enjoy the mathematical element which is why I took artificial intelligence modules at university.

    Honestly, I wouldn't say programming is everything but I would say being able to think in a logical way is almost everything. I've known people who can program but are terrible when it comes to problem solving away from a computer. I'd go as far as to say at times I hate programming. Give me a book on cryptography or artificial intelligence however and I could read with interest for days and days. I'd say you don't have to enjoy it but be prepared to do something you don't enjoy for the overall good. There were elements of my course I didn't enjoy but did doing those modules benefit me in the long run? Most definitely.
    It's similar for me, when I get engulfed with theoretical stuff, I love reading about it going beyond what's on my course etc just to develop my understanding in that field. The problem is I can't manage to get my ''pen and paper" problem solving skills into algorithm. I briefly tried HTML/CSS/Javascript but didn't put much thought into it because ironically I thought that when I start programming I'll find that more interesting.

    But yes I take your point completely - cheers mate. I guess it's just the fact that finding your course 100% interesting is never going to happen, and this is one of those things that you just have to get through somehow.

    (Original post by Simes)
    It's not for everyone. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it.
    Well I mean it's only of my modules of 8 this year so I won't drop my degree because of it.
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    (Original post by Stickman)
    It's similar for me, when I get engulfed with theoretical stuff, I love reading about it going beyond what's on my course etc just to develop my understanding in that field. The problem is I can't manage to get my ''pen and paper" problem solving skills into algorithm. I briefly tried HTML/CSS/Javascript but didn't put much thought into it because ironically I thought that when I start programming I'll find that more interesting.

    But yes I take your point completely - cheers mate. I guess it's just the fact that finding your course 100% interesting is never going to happen, and this is one of those things that you just have to get through somehow.
    There will also be time in your working life when you don't like a project you're on for various reasons but you have just got to get on with things as best you can.
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    I'm the complete opposite I enjoy programming and find basic web stuff pretty trivial and tedius.
    Attitudes everything with programming if you come at it with a "this is hard, i can't do it" then you will fail. You got to explore the language, tinker with code.

    You say A.I is interesting - try writing a simple game played by A.I based on FSMs using select/switch statements. Then you could rewrite it implementing the State pattern if you wanted to practise your object-oriented programming.

    I can't see how you would find a.i interesting but not enjoy coding which lets see you the theory in action.
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    (Original post by President Snow)
    There are two types of people in the world: those who believe in this crap and those who understand that there are at least fifty shades of grey in between.

    Programming will get easier as you get better at it. The more time you put in the better it will get - to a certain extent. I love programming. I do an awful lot of it, first taught myself at age 13 and the learning never ends. These days I'm plugging away at just a couple of very large codebases and always on the lookout for ways to improve my code quality.


    It sounds as though your biggest problem is that you never truly nailed the fundamentals. Until you go back and get those sorted out, no matter how much complex material you try to practice on, you'll always be ropey. I'd suggest picking up a good introductory book and reading it front to back. I hate the way most universities teach the course where everything's focused on assignments and there's no suggestion to ever read the book, just fiddle your way through with barely a shred of understanding of what's going on. Learning to program is a fine balancing act between reading the theory and trying it in practice. I think you're too heavy on the practice right now, and you need to read (and I mean actually read, not just skim through "yeah, yeah, I know all this" an introductory book at the same time as you program your university assignments).

    Then you'll pick up all of the theory, functions, groundwork, tips of the trade, set methods, etc. and suddenly programming will become a lot easier. As for fun? Who knows. That depends on your personality and whether it gels. But something you find very hard and confusing is unlikely to be fun. Something you find stimulating but possible might well be.

    My advice is that you need to weave a better line between theory and practice - and you need to steer a little bit back towards the theory right now.
    Hmhm yeah you might be right. You're correct in saying that it is too assignment driven right now. Too little is taught theoretically but I guess I could just read from books. We've just started it so it might just be me needing to go through all the basics again which shouldn't take long.

    Do you think that ability to think logically betters as you become better at programming, or is it something you need to be good at from before? Bearing in mind my experience is a measly 3 months compared to yours.
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    (Original post by Stickman)
    I'm doing an EEE degree, so it's quite interlinked with CS in the sense that it is probably the engineering discipline where there's a lot of programming involved for obvious reasons.

    Problem is, I don't enjoy programming. I just feel I can't understand it (C) and I can't get myself to put that much attention into programming as I can in one of my other modules like Electromagnetics/power electronics or more physicsy kind of modules. I even enjoy doing maths, but programming is just something I detest really.

    I know it's really important to be able to code. I've heard all the talk that 'there are two types of people in this world: coders and non coders', and that does want me to try and enjoy programming, but unfortunately I just don't like it. I don't know what it is - the ability to think in a logical way? I don't think I have that inside me lol, having a rigorous step by step algorithmic approach.

    But if you give me problem questions to do, I love doing those sorts of things.

    Is there anyone like me who can share their experiences? Obviously I have to do programming because it is essential but it's just I won't be good at it, and I don't want to be looked down upon in the future after I graduate on my limited programming skills.
    No, programming is not everything but important anyway... just like mathematics is not everything but important for a CS degree.
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    (Original post by Stickman)
    Hmhm yeah you might be right. You're correct in saying that it is too assignment driven right now. Too little is taught theoretically but I guess I could just read from books. We've just started it so it might just be me needing to go through all the basics again which shouldn't take long.

    Do you think that ability to think logically betters as you become better at programming, or is it something you need to be good at from before? Bearing in mind my experience is a measly 3 months compared to yours.
    I honestly don't think there's any special talent whatsoever needed for programming. I truly believe that anybody can learn the skills required if they put in enough effort.

    The problem is that some people are going to naturally enjoy programming more than others. I love programming so put in a lot of time. I personally don't enjoy football, although a lot of other people do, so I never spent much time getting good.

    Here though programming is an important skill for you, and I think that you shouldn't judge it too early, whilst you are still being confounded by it. I'd suggest hitting the books, getting a solid grounding, and things will get easier.

    There's absolutely nothing stopping you from being a great programmer though. Personally, I think that all of the skills come from reading the theory (learning tips and tricks you otherwise wouldn't have thought of), lots of trail and error (so you start to recognise similarities with programs you've written before), and before long you're not struggling with every line of code, but subconsciously copying & pasting work you've done on past programs into your new code.

    I wouldn't say programming's particularly easy as such, but I don't think there's anything holding you or anyone else back from it. It really isn't that hard - no spark of genius required, just some hard graft to get over the learning curve.
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    You have to think of programming as what it is, it's a language, and you're trying to convey something to the user, or they say something and you respond, except you have to pre-plan your response. It sounds weird but try taking up a foreign language and it'll help shape your brain to be better able to cope with programming, there's a reason why a lot of foreign language grads end up getting hired as programmers.
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    (Original post by Helloworld_95)
    You have to think of programming as what it is, it's a language, and you're trying to convey something to the user, or they say something and you respond, except you have to pre-plan your response. It sounds weird but try taking up a foreign language and it'll help shape your brain to be better able to cope with programming, there's a reason why a lot of foreign language grads end up getting hired as programmers.
    What I am about to say is very much my opinion only and nothing more, but I personally don't like thinking of programming as learning a language. I've heard it said many times, but I can't say I agree.

    For one thing, I'm terrible at learning languages. They're completely not my thing. I like maths a lot (in fact, I'm studying for a maths degree) and I really like the sciences too, but humanities and languages never gelled. I'm not good at rote learning (vocab, ugh), I was always hesitant and shaky on verb tables no matter how much I revised them, and trying to string sentences together was like drawing blood from a stone.

    And yet despite this, I really enjoy (and would like to think I'm good at) programming.


    To me - once again, this is just my personal opinion and how I like to learn, programming is completely different. It doesn't involve rote learning: it involves reading the textbook, intimately understanding what's being said, practicing the material and then repeatedly repracticing the material just by continuous coding - e.g. a later project requires me to use the increment operator, which reminds me what the increment operator is, reminds me of the syntax and how to use it, reminds me of special considerations (i++ vs ++i), etc. etc. Anything I don't remember I reference in my textbook.

    Almost without any conscious thought the material goes in. Writing new programs then requires a combination of problem solving, lateral thinking, referencing my textbook, searching the web, etc. etc.
    None of it requires rote learning, remembering word order in various grammatical constructions (it should go in without conscious thought that your language places the conditional expression prior to the body in an if statement).


    I know they're called languages, and in a sense they are, but I don't think the same skills apply. And before we go there, I don't think maths skills are important either. Most programming only requires addition and multiplication, perhaps the occasional modulo to test evenness, and maybe a few specialist skills like understanding binary format for slightly more advanced bitfield work and XORing. There's no advanced maths there.

    Some areas of programming require better maths: analysis of algorithms, understanding cryptographic algorithms (using them doesn't, understanding them does), advanced 3D graphics/animation, etc.

    But really, that's maths being used in the programming, and you only need maths to do the maths. You don't really need the maths to do the programming part. I think some of the problem solving aspects of programming are fairly natural to mathematicians, but come with practice to everyone else.

    So, once again, I don't think any special skills are needed. It really isn't that hard.
 
 
 
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