Question on the Liberal Democrats Watch

Gnomes&Knights
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I heard somewhere that if the Liberal Democrats ever get into power they will completely abolish the Monarchy, meaning, no more Royal Family. Is this true? Also will this benefit the UK if that happens.
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aoxa
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Liberal Democrats getting into power? Never going to happen.

I doubt they'd abolish the monarchy - there was something about reforming the monarchy back in 2003/2004 when they were trying to win over the youth vote, but I've not heard/read of their stance on the monarchy recently, so I don't think they'd be in favour of abolishing the monarchy. There's also been no official manifesto on whether they'd abolish the monarchy/ put it to a vote, so I think their 'abolish the monarchy' days are long gone.

Whether the abolition of the monarchy would benefit the UK is a different debate, and depends on your personal stance, but as someone who airs on the side of republicanism, I honestly can't see the point of the monarchy.
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ChaoticButterfly
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Interesting article on the monarchy which made me rethink my stance on the concept.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...arles-opinions
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Gnomes&Knights
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(Original post by aoxa)
Liberal Democrats getting into power? Never going to happen.

I doubt they'd abolish the monarchy - there was something about reforming the monarchy back in 2003/2004 when they were trying to win over the youth vote, but I've not heard/read of their stance on the monarchy recently, so I don't think they'd be in favour of abolishing the monarchy. There's also been no official manifesto on whether they'd abolish the monarchy/ put it to a vote, so I think their 'abolish the monarchy' days are long gone.

Whether the abolition of the monarchy would benefit the UK is a different debate, and depends on your personal stance, but as someone who airs on the side of republicanism, I honestly can't see the point of the monarchy.
I'm pretty sure if the Royal Family handed over a huge sum of their wealth to the government then it will benefit the economy largely.
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aoxa
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(Original post by Raymat)
I'm pretty sure if the Royal Family handed over a huge sum of their wealth to the government then it will benefit the economy largely.
But that's not going to happen. Each year, millions are given to the monarchy so that the estates are maintained and they can live in luxury. There is the argument that this money is reaped back in tourists coming to visit, and then spending money etc, but tourists will still come to the UK, monarchy or no, so this money that the government gives to the monarchy is money wasted imo.

If the monarchy was dissolved, and the majority of the net worth handed over to the state, this would benefit the economy hugely. In 2011, the queen had a net worth of $450 million, mostly from real estate, jewellery and other assets.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Raymat)
I heard somewhere that if the Liberal Democrats ever get into power they will completely abolish the Monarchy, meaning, no more Royal Family. Is this true? Also will this benefit the UK if that happens.
Liberal Democrats probably don't have the strong support that Labour and the Tories do but they are pro-monarchy, even the SNP abandoned their Republicanism such is the support for retaining the monarchy. There's simply no political capital to be gained outside the extreme left (right-libertarians are few in number) so no major party supports it.

(Original post by Raymat)
I'm pretty sure if the Royal Family handed over a huge sum of their wealth to the government then it will benefit the economy largely.
The personal wealth of the monarchy is too small to make a blind bit of difference to an economy our size. Their technical ownership of all land is irrelevant since government mines ect.. as it wishes.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by aoxa)
But that's not going to happen. Each year, millions are given to the monarchy so that the estates are maintained and they can live in luxury. There is the argument that this money is reaped back in tourists coming to visit, and then spending money etc, but tourists will still come to the UK, monarchy or no, so this money that the government gives to the monarchy is money wasted imo.

If the monarchy was dissolved, and the majority of the net worth handed over to the state, this would benefit the economy hugely. In 2011, the queen had a net worth of $450 million, mostly from real estate, jewellery and other assets.
We are not some poxy principality. We are a $2.x trillion economy with tax revenues around £700 billion. Monarchy or no monarchy, the economic gain/loss in tiny.
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MrJAKEE
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(Original post by aoxa)
But that's not going to happen. Each year, millions are given to the monarchy so that the estates are maintained and they can live in luxury. There is the argument that this money is reaped back in tourists coming to visit, and then spending money etc, but tourists will still come to the UK, monarchy or no, so this money that the government gives to the monarchy is money wasted imo.

If the monarchy was dissolved, and the majority of the net worth handed over to the state, this would benefit the economy hugely. In 2011, the queen had a net worth of $450 million, mostly from real estate, jewellery and other assets.
The Queen owns most of her land. All profits on the land are actually given to the state which then give less money back to her. By abolishing the monarchy you'd actually be reducing the money going into the public finances. This of course is in addition to the tourism benefits.. The heritage benefits etc etc


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aoxa
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(Original post by Rakas21)
We are not some poxy principality. We are a $2.x trillion economy with tax revenues around £700 billion. Monarchy or no monarchy, the economic gain/loss in tiny.
Yes. But that wasn't my argument. Last year, the amount the government gave the queen increased from £32m to £36m (if memory serves correctly) and everyone made a big fuss about that. To the government, that increase isn't even a drop, but to normal people, that is a huge amount - money which many thought could have been better spent elsewhere.

My argument was that if the monarchy were to be abolished, and most of the queens net worth were to be injected into the economy, it would make quite a sizeable difference, perhaps not to the larger economy, but most certainly to the local economies/NHS.
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aoxa
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(Original post by MrJAKEE)
The Queen owns most of her land. All profits on the land are actually given to the state which then give less money back to her. By abolishing the monarchy you'd actually be reducing the money going into the public finances. This of course is in addition to the tourism benefits.. The heritage benefits etc etc


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Hm. Do you actually have any figures to back that up out of interest?
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MrJAKEE
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(Original post by aoxa)
Hm. Do you actually have any figures to back that up out of interest?
I'll look it up but check out CGP greys monarchy video first.


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MrJAKEE
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(Original post by aoxa)
Hm. Do you actually have any figures to back that up out of interest?
I'm no accountant so perhaps I'm not best to explain this, this is from my understanding :

The Queen used to obtain from the Civil List a fixed sum from the Treasury in return for all surplus money from the Crown Estate. It goes back to George III when effectively he incurred large quantities of debts.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil...United_Kingdom

This was replaced with the Sovereign Grant in which means the Queen gets 15% of the revenues from Crown Estate in addition to bits and bobs.

https://www.royal.gov.uk/TheRoyalHou...eignGrant.aspx

If one looks at the costs she incurs + the surplus revenue the Crown Estate produces, she has a net benefit to the Treasury.

https://www.royal.gov.uk/LatestNewsa...ort201213.aspx

Eg in 2011-2012 gross receipts of the Crown Estate were £240 million , sovereign grant was £33 million, giving a net benefit to the Treasury of £207 million. The Royal Family also has a swathe of other pieces of land that they own.
It should also be considered that she does pay tax + a lot of the costs incurred by her would be incurred with other Heads of State (eg travelling, security and maintenance).

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/art...-uk-taxpayers/
This is also a good article, and the conclusion the American makes is a bit meh if I'm honest. He sees mainly objection with the waste quantities of land the Royal Family own rather than their finances.



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Davij038
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The only party that advocates abolishing the monarchy is the Green Party which is one of their few policies that make any sense.

The monarchy are an irrelevance, hardly worth bothering about. Stop tax payers funding them and I couldn't give a toss what they do.
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Davij038
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(Original post by aoxa)
Liberal Democrats getting into power? Never going to happen.
Apart from the current coalition (and another possible one) you mean?
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aoxa
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(Original post by Davij038)
Apart from the current coalition (and another possible one) you mean?
I meant as in winning a majority. I can't realistically seeing that happening anytime soon, and certainly not for the 2015 election - the only way the lib dems are going to get into power will be another coalition.

Since the end of January to now, they've been polling between 5-9% - way behind Tory/Labour, behind UKIP, and on the whole, on par with the greens.
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Davij038
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(Original post by aoxa)
I meant as in winning a majority. I can't realistically seeing that happening anytime soon, and certainly not for the 2015 election - the only way the lib dems are going to get into power will be another coalition.

Since the end of January to now, they've been polling between 5-9% - way behind Tory/Labour, behind UKIP, and on the whole, on par with the greens.
Polling isn't exactly an exact science, and shouldn't be relied on. Usually there's prompting and your also usually dependent on the sort of people willing to take cold calls in the day, hence so much ukip support!

I think we're approaching the end of majority government. A government running the country on less than 30% of the vote is not democratically legitimate. Coalitions are here to stay Abdul I can only hope the lib dems continue as the centre point of reason in Westminster.
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jameswhughes
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(Original post by Raymat)
I heard somewhere that if the Liberal Democrats ever get into power they will completely abolish the Monarchy, meaning, no more Royal Family. Is this true? Also will this benefit the UK if that happens.
What they should really be concerned about is the abolition of their party in May.
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member1179807
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(Original post by Raymat)
I heard somewhere that if the Liberal Democrats ever get into power they will completely abolish the Monarchy, meaning, no more Royal Family. Is this true? Also will this benefit the UK if that happens.
Once they have abolished all traditional structures new liberals would like to create a third gender and use every way possible to give people rights including insane things like giving people with genetic diseases the right to produce babies with the use of 3 parents. Materialist dogma taken to its logical extreme produces insanity.



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DaveSmith99
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(Original post by MrJAKEE)
The Queen owns most of her land. All profits on the land are actually given to the state which then give less money back to her. By abolishing the monarchy you'd actually be reducing the money going into the public finances. This of course is in addition to the tourism benefits.. The heritage benefits etc etc


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The Queen does not own the Crown Estate, the Crown owns it. The Queen does own Sandringham and Balmoral privately, but not anything else.
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MrJAKEE
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(Original post by DaveSmith99)
The Queen does not own the Crown Estate, the Crown owns it. The Queen does own Sandringham and Balmoral privately, but not anything else.
You're right : but that doesn't change much.. the royal family still pay more into the Treasury than they receive back.


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