Elements
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#1
Report Thread starter 15 years ago
#1
Hi. I'm really interested in all the different options for qualifications after post-16 education. I was wondering whether all you lovely ppl could tell me what the differences are in structure, subject options and duration of the IB, EB and the French Bac? Is the IB something like you have to do:

Your native language
A foreign language.
Maths
A science
2 other requirements?

+ Community work and a creative writing report?

All over 2 years? How does the IB fare? Is the EB (European Baccalaureat) the same or how is it like? I've heard that for the French Bac there is the literary one and the scientific one and a few other types, which are? And what combinations of subjects can you do within them too? And even though it's the French Bac system, can you do that system but in another language, such as English for example? And if there's the IB is there an IA that comes first? :ninja: If so when?

Rep is up for grabs on this, xXx. Maybe this should be stickied too and/or wikied?
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HMSChocolate
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#2
Report 15 years ago
#2
Haha.
Don't know much about EB or French Bac but...

IA = Internal Assessment. It's bascially coursework that needs to be done for each subject and sent to examiners to be marked and/or moderated.

International Baccalaureate: IB subjects are split into 6 groups. You do 6 subjects with at least 3 subjects at Standard Level and 3 at Higher Level. You could do 4 subjects at HL and 2 at SL but thats just making more work for yourself and generally doesn't do much. You could also take an extrat subject (a 7th subject) for a certificate, which means you have to indicate which subject is the cert subject. the other 6 appears on your formal diploma and you get a cert which comes with the diploma to note your point for your 7th subject.

Group 1: Language A. There's Lang A1, which is basically a literature course, offered in a variety of languages. For Lang A1, at HL you study 15 works, including at least 4 World Literature works which is lit written in another language but translated into the language you're studying. IA include 2 essays written based on the World Lit texts you studied, a formal recorded oral commentary on an extract from a work you've studied (in written orginally in the language you're studying) and an oral presentation of a theme/topic of another work. the presentation is a lot less stressing because it's not recorded and just made to the class and/or the teacher. They reccommend taking A1 in the language you're most fluent in, usual your native language.

Language A2 is similiar to A1, but it's less focus on lit and there's some language aspect thrown in. A1 is a course totally focussed on the literary analysis, but A2 (according to my teacher anyway, I didn't do A2) you get to do some more fun stuff like creative writing etc etc. Not sure what IA include.

Group 2: Language B (duh!) which is basically a foreign language. You can take it either at Language B or at Lang Ab Intio. Also offered in a variety of languages. Lang B is designed for students who have already studied the language before and perhaps have some previous qualification in the language already (GCSE, IGCSE etc). Lang Ab Intio however is for students who ahve never studied the language before so you start totally from scratch. You could take Lang Ab Intio despite the fact that you've studied the language before only if you haven't had a previous qualification in the subject. Like I know someone who failed her IGCSE French and went back and did French Ab Intio.

Group 3: Humanities and Societies: A whole host of subjects that would fit in that group.

Group 4: Sciences: include Physics, Biology, Chemistry, Environmental System. IA is a series of in-class labs (40 hours' worth for SL, 60 hours for HL) graded to IB criteria by your teacher. also you do a big Group 4 project which is a big lab that tries to incorporate all the aspects of group 4 in it. they encourage Group 4 projects which include aspects of at least the 3 more common scieneces - Phys, Bio, Chem.

Group 5: Mathematics and Computer Science - I think you have to take Math and if you want to do Comp Sci, you do it as an elective in Group 6. Math split into 4 levels (from hardest to easiest): Futhur Math only offered at SL, Math HL, Math SL, Math Studies only offered at SL. You can't just do Futhur Math. You have to do both Futhur Math SL and Math HL, so you have to choose Futhur Math SL as your elective in Group 6.

Group 6: Arts and Elective. You have a choice here of either taking an actual Group 6 subject - Music, Visual Arts, Theatre Arts - or taking another subject in any of the above groups. So instead of taking an art subject, you could take an A2 Lang to supplement your A1 lang in Group 1. For that you could get a Bi-Lingual Diploma (I think). Or take another Lang B or Ab, or another Group 3 or another Science or either Comp Sci or Futhur Math.

So, yeah that's your 6 subjects. The subjects are graded from 1-7 (7 is the highest). The final grade is a combination of your IA grade and your examination grade.

along with the 6 subjects, to get your diploma, you have to do a course called Theory of Knowledge (TOK). TOK deals with...the abstract really. It's all about, how do you know that what you know is true, what is knowledge, what is truth, what is fact, how do we trust our knowledge etc etc. IA include an essay (prescribed titles by the IBO) and a oral presentation. TOK is marked A-E instead of 1-7. A is obviously the best. From IBO.org:

The theory of knowledge (TOK) requirement is central to the educational philosophy of the Diploma Programme.


It offers students and their teachers the opportunity to:

reflect critically on diverse ways of knowing and on areas of knowledge
consider the role and nature of knowledge in their own culture, in the cultures of others and in the wider world.
In addition, it prompts students to:

be aware of themselves as thinkers, encouraging them to become more acquainted with the complexity of knowledge
recognize the need to act responsibly in an increasingly interconnected but uncertain world.
As a thoughtful and purposeful inquiry into different ways of knowing, and into different kinds of knowledge, TOK is composed almost entirely of questions. The most central of these is “How do we know?”


It is a stated aim of TOK that students should become aware of the interpretative nature of knowledge, including personal ideological biases, regardless of whether, ultimately, these biases are retained, revised or rejected.


TOK also has an important role to play in providing coherence for the student as it transcends and links academic subject areas, thus demonstrating the ways in which they can apply their knowledge with greater awareness and credibility.
Extended Essay: Every diploma candidate writes a 4000 words research essay on any subject they want. the EE progress is overseen by a supervisor. EE is also marked A-E. Depending on the combination of your TOK and EE grades, you can get up to 3 bonus points which goes towards your final diploma points. If you get an E on both EE and TOK, however, you automatically fail your diploma.

Also to get the Diploma you need 150 hours of CAS - Creativity Action Service. You need 50 hours of each activity type but CAS is something you could kind of tweak hours on, like round up, add a few here and there...Anyway, they say minimum of 150 hours, but you can always go over.

IB is offered in 3 languages - English, French or Spanish. Which means aside from the Languages subjects, all the other subjects are studied in your chosen language.

I have a feeling I missed something. :confused: Anyway, see www.ibo.org

Anyway, you can tell I want that rep! but perhaps I should have let Andy do this as he so obviously needs the rep more than I do! :cool: Though perhaps I'm trying to break my own reccord of the longest post on TSR (or at least this subforum! )

:tsr2: :tsr2:
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Elements
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#3
Report Thread starter 15 years ago
#3
Wow! Thanks ever so much! That's awesome! Andy (whoever he is :confused:) can still reply too if he wants!:p: I need someone to tell me about the EB and French Bac too, hopefully in as much detail as you.:hugs: Rep will be on it's way to you tomorrow as have already repped today. What are the group 3 societies though? Can you do more than 7 subjects if you want?:p:
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Deus
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#4
Report 15 years ago
#4
Group 3 in IB consists of: The available subjects are Business and Management, Economics, Geography, History (and History of the Islamic World), Information Technology in a Global Society (ITGS), Philosophy, Psychology, and Social and Cultural Anthropology.


Now I won't copy and paste but I can tell you where to read about EB and French Bac so you can just go and read for yourself

French Bac
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baccalaur%C3%A9at

European Bac
http://www.ucas.ac.uk/candq/inter/misc/appendb.html

International Bac
http://www.ucas.ac.uk/candq/inter/misc/appendc.html
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andy_cole2
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#5
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#5
an exceptionally long post whcih from reading looks like you wrote yourself :p: and its six subjects you do, hence the six subjects. and although you can take additional certificates if you want to, there isn't really much time / point. where are you studying etc? to apparently have the choice of all 3 qualifications. if you want to know about the french bac i would talk to francy_pants, she is normally skulking in the economic/ PPE/Oxford forums.
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andy_cole2
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#6
Report 15 years ago
#6
(Original post by Elements)
What the differences are in structure, subject options and duration of the IB, EB and the French Bac?

French bac = various options depending on whether you take a sciences course or ...whatever else, check that wiki link. french bac isn't relaly based around essay writing which i think the IB is more about/ 2bh of the three if you were choosing i would recommend the IB, cos its the best


Community work and a creative writing report?
CAS as is explained above, you then write up your CAS

And what combinations of subjects can you do within them too?
French bac is a lot stricter in terms of subjects etc

And even though it's the French Bac system, can you do that system but in
another language, such as English for example?
almost definitly not i would have said, the french are obsessed with removing any hint of englihs from their language, i think it will be chirac's legacy. i would say with almost 100% confidence that the french bac has to be compleeted in french :p:

Rep is up for grabs on this, xXx. Maybe this should be stickied too and/or wikied?
we have far too many stickies up here already, though i spose HMS could rewrite her spiel in the revision sticky...? by rewrite i mean copy paste of course :p:
hmmm my message is too short, have to put something out of the quotes
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ayden161
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#7
Report 15 years ago
#7
The only similarity between the International Baccalaureate, French Baccalaureate and European Baccalaureate is the word 'Baccalaureate' in their name.
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HMSChocolate
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#8
Report 15 years ago
#8
(Original post by Elements)
Can you do more than 7 subjects if you want?:p:
Not really I dont think. the IBO requires you to spend a set number of hours on subjects - 250 hours over 2 years at HL and 150 at SL I think - so you really wouldn't have the time for more than 7 subjects. Not that many people do 7 subjects anyway because it's just a lot more work and the IB is demanding enough as if it is with 6 subjects.

are you just asking for curiosity or do you have to choose?

Andy: I just noticed!!! You have a green gem!! yayness!
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princebleucheese
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#9
Report 15 years ago
#9
The French Bac is comprised of 3 different sections Littéraire (L) , Économie-Sociale (ES), and Scientifique (S).


L is for those who know they want to do something to do with literature. Their classes, I think, are History (it can be in French or in English depending on you specialité and if you do the OIB), a foreign language or two, math, biology (SVT - science de la vie et de la terre), english, french, and lettres (don't ask me about that dont know what it is...). At the end of junior year they take Math and History Exams (I think thats it..), they don't take those two subjects in senior year. In senior year they have to take 8+ hours of philosophy, french, history (in either english or in french), english and their foreign language(s).

ES is for those who want to do economics later on, I think.... They take economics, french, biology, math, history (like in L, depending on if they take OIB - option international bacc...- its in either french or english), english, and foreign langauge during their junior year. During their senior year they take 8+ hours of economics, math(not sure...) , history, english, philosophy, and their foreing language(s). They do not take french or bio because they take their french and bio exams at the end of junior year...

S is for people who wnat to do sciences...In their first year they take Math, Bio, Physics, Chemistry, History (if they are doing OIB), French, a foreign language, and english. They drop french and something else...not sure what... at the end of the junior year... and thats about all i know about S

the french bac consists of just regurgitating what they learn in school on their exams... they have no EE or IAs.

hopefully that was helpful...
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HMSChocolate
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#10
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#10
sounds...complicated
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andy_cole2
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#11
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#11
*drum roll*
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Jenii
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#12
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#12
I'm glad I'm not the only non alevel student on tsr .
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usa1981
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#13
Report 15 years ago
#13
(Original post by Francypants)
Hello, I'm the first EBer on here I think (I do the European Baccalaureate).

Okay basically, we do around 10 subjects

1. compulsory 1st language (for me english, can be any language of the european union including super random ones ) 3hours a week, can take advanced course which is 6 hours a week

2. compulsory 1st foreign language (must be french, english or german) 3hours a week

3. compulsory (atleast) one science subject, there is a 'easy' biology course for those who are non scientifically inclned whih is 1.5hours a week and 'advanced' science courses which are 3 hours a week.

4. Geography: taught in second language, 1.5hours a week compulsory, can take advanced 3hour option

5. History, taught in second language, 1.5hours a week compulsory, can take advanced 3hour option

6. Maths- compulsory aswell, theres a '3 hour', '5hour' and '8 hour' option correlating roughly to AS, A, and Further A levels in maths.

7. Complusory religion- 45 minutes a week

8. Compulsory gym- 1.5hours a week

9. Compulsory philosophy 1.5hors a week, or 3 hour advanced option

10. Optional subjects, these can be 'advanced courses' in philosophy, sciences, history, geography, 2nd foreign language, third foreighn language, economics and so on. Everyone muct take at least 2 'advanced subjects' not including maths and english. In reality most people do three or four as there is a inimum liit on the number of hours we have.

11. Complimenatry subjects- if you have 2 advanced subjects you can take these to make up hours. They include sociology, elemerntaery economics, beginner language courses, and 'lab sciences' (one for bio, chem and phys). They are generally 1.5 hours per week and cannot be taken as exams in the bac.

12. For some reason advanced english, maths and 1st foreign languages are treated differentlty to other advaned subjects so they form a new category.

We take 9 exams- 5 writtens and 4 orals.

Written examinations (worth 35% of bac) are compulsory in Maths, 1st language and 1st foreign language. The other two writtens must be optional subjects (mentioned in point 10).

Oral examinations (worth 25% of bac) are compulsory in 1st language, 1st foreign language and one of history or geography. Those taking '8 hour maths' must also do a maths oral. The other oral (if not a mathmo) can be any 4 or 1.5 hour subject (excluding complimenatry subjects).

25% of bac is our 'pre bacs' which are exams we sit in January in all subjects.

15% of our bac is our 'effort marks', which is basically how much a teacher likes us

Our overall mark is a overall percentage. Below 60% is a failure, and anyone whogets below this ov average will not recieve their bac at all and be forced to repeat the year.

Well this is really confusing I'm sure, but I've tried to explain it! Anymore questions just ask!
Why did you choose to do the EB? Do you take History or Geogarphy and if so in what language do you take the subject?
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Elements
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#14
Report Thread starter 14 years ago
#14
Is it possible to transfer over from A-levels to the IB? Or say one does A-levels then wants to do IB in one year on their year out? In order to do their humanity subject or whatever in their second language to help for their career, and to pick up new qualifications at the same time?
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HMSChocolate
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#15
Report 14 years ago
#15
well you can change but you will still have to do the full 2 years of IB when you change over. some of the IB syllabi are quite specific and some subjects like sciences you have to do on going coursework that span over hte 2 years. not to mention CAS. CAS has to be on going and you have to record hours in the 2 years that you do IB.
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La Môme
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#16
Report 14 years ago
#16
My mother did something similar to the EB/French Bac back in the 70s. She said it was hellish, they made you do a lot of subjects and memorise too much. But that was back in the day, it could've changed.

I think the IB is good also if you're planning to study elsewhere later on. And it makes you well-rounded when you've finished, as you have to do a bit of everything. That's what they tell me, anyway.
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Elements
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#17
Report Thread starter 14 years ago
#17
Or would it just be possible to do the CAS, TOK and EE but with only doing qualifications in the humanity but doing this in the second language, doing group 2 language for the bi or near bi-lingual status, because of already gaining an A-level in the subject but wanting to become more fluent and with bi-lingual status if you see what I mean and starting an ab-initio language? So not doing one from all of the groups as already have A-levels? And is it possible to resit GCSE exams, not retake them through studying and lessons etc for a year or 2 whatever, just resitting, some GCSE exams whilst working for the IB?
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Bandev
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#18
Report 14 years ago
#18
You have to do one of the subject from each group (except group 6) that is from the IB, eg completeing all IAs and exams. If you don't do all the subjects according to the IB you only get a certificate instead of a diploma.
That said if your fine with a certificate you can do a humanity in the second language provided that it is French, Spanish, or English. Also if you want to do an bi-lingual language thingy you can do A2 or A1 subject in the language no matter what language it is, and you can start the ab initio langauge. Btw you don't need to have a qualification to do an A2 or A1 language.

So you would be doing.
Group 1
Possibly
Group 2
ab initio
posible A2
Group 3
Subject in either French, Spanish, or English
Group 4
Nothing
Group 5
Nothing
Group 6
Nothing

I am unsure if you would be able to do TOK, CAS or EE if you are doing a ceritficate.
I don't know anything about the GSCE, so I can't say anything about that.
But to get the diploma you would have to do the A-level subject, you say that are in the other groups, in IB.

I hope this make some kind of sense.
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Elements
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#19
Report Thread starter 14 years ago
#19
(Original post by Bandev)
You have to do one of the subject from each group (except group 6) that is from the IB, eg completeing all IAs and exams. If you don't do all the subjects according to the IB you only get a certificate instead of a diploma.
That said if your fine with a certificate you can do a humanity in the second language provided that it is French, Spanish, or English. Also if you want to do an bi-lingual language thingy you can do A2 or A1 subject in the language no matter what language it is, and you can start the ab initio langauge. Btw you don't need to have a qualification to do an A2 or A1 language.

So you would be doing.
Group 1
Possibly
Group 2
ab initio
posible A2
Group 3
Subject in either French, Spanish, or English
Group 4
Nothing
Group 5
Nothing
Group 6
Nothing

I am unsure if you would be able to do TOK, CAS or EE if you are doing a ceritficate.
I don't know anything about the GSCE, so I can't say anything about that.
But to get the diploma you would have to do the A-level subject, you say that are in the other groups, in IB.

I hope this make some kind of sense.
So would this work:

Group 1: Transfer of my AS English Literature qualification
Group 2: Bilingual second language option
Group 3: Humanity in second language
Group 4: Transfer of my A2 Biology qualification
Group 5: Transfer of my AS Maths qualification
Group 6: Ab-intio language

I don't particularly want to do the TOK, CAS and EE but thought that it had to be done to do the IB. What's the differnce and preferred/respected option between a certificate and the diploma then?:confused:
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nota bene
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#20
Report 14 years ago
#20
(Original post by Elements)
So would this work:

Group 1: Transfer of my AS English Literature qualification
Group 2: Bilingual second language option
Group 3: Humanity in second language
Group 4: Transfer of my A2 Biology qualification
Group 5: Transfer of my AS Maths qualification
Group 6: Ab-intio language

I don't particularly want to do the TOK, CAS and EE but thought that it had to be done to do the IB. What's the differnce and preferred/respected option between a certificate and the diploma then?:confused:
I'd not go for a certificate if I was going to apply to European universities (American don't care that much I think), look at the entrance requirements; often it says "obtain the Diploma with x points". Universities will probably accept certificates but you're probably at a disadvantage.

That said I'm pretty sure it is not possible to transfer any grades from one system to another. Well, of course you can have a mixture of A-level grades and IB certificate grades, but again I don't think it is of much use, keep it to one of the systems. Basically if you want to transfer to IB, hear with a school doing it and see what they let you do, but be prepared you 'lose' a year by having to do the full 2 years of IB. This because you will be hopelessly behind with the required coursework, and some other stuff like CAS; also some of the subject may suffer as e.g. a Physics AS will have scraped a little on the surface of many areas (I think at least), and when you get into the IB course you find that you know _a little_ of all the syllabus, but nothing in depth (and what has already been done you'd had to catch up yourself). The system is not very friendly for transfers...
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