Why does no-one take the MRM seriously?
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Original post by Smash Bandicoot
The Telegraph is not really a neutral source, it's a fairly right wing conservative one in favour of traditional masculinity etc. I mean the latest article I read re: 'men get objectified, real men don't care, man up and hit the gym' is basically Redpill for the masses 
Where did you get that from?
In any case, I don't think that takes away from their observation. Their observation shared by many sources, even leftwing publications.
The #MeninistTwitter hashtag was initially started by men sharing jokes - some of which were criticised as offensive by feminists. But supporters of the hashtag say it's become a channel for men to express the difficulties of being a man in the 21st Century.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25462758
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25462758
Anyway, that is the answer to the OP. Now you know.
Interesting video. My initial reaction is that a lot of this cuts both ways. We hear about 'women' so much as a group (as opposed to 'men') perhaps precisely because they're thought to be weaker or unable to stand up for themselves. We care more about them because we think they're more vulnerable, making the headlines are more emotionally impactful. "Women and children" is a great example of that, where they're distinguished from men by their defencelessness, and harming the defenceless is, in our culture, that much more reprehensible than harming those who can stand up for themselves.
As for professions, women are always a "female this" or a "woman that", and never simply "a firefighter" or "a police officer", like men are. They can't escape their gender being brought into it, always influencing people to see them as more vulnerable or labelled as distinct from the gender-neutral "people" who are doing all the fighting, the rescuing and the dying. The men are thought not to need this fanfare because they're truly one of the team, doing the job unceremoniously as it's supposed to be done, and not weak, or there to meet a gender quota, or any such condescension.
The other thing to mention is that until recently, a lot of these words carried the assumption of masculinity. A firefighter was male, a police officer was male, a hero still is male. It's only recently that our language has changed to be gender-neutral towards traditionally male professions, whereas women are still clarified as being female. This is almost certainly a product of feminism, but it should be clear to everyone that the genders aren't yet treated equally.
As for professions, women are always a "female this" or a "woman that", and never simply "a firefighter" or "a police officer", like men are. They can't escape their gender being brought into it, always influencing people to see them as more vulnerable or labelled as distinct from the gender-neutral "people" who are doing all the fighting, the rescuing and the dying. The men are thought not to need this fanfare because they're truly one of the team, doing the job unceremoniously as it's supposed to be done, and not weak, or there to meet a gender quota, or any such condescension.
The other thing to mention is that until recently, a lot of these words carried the assumption of masculinity. A firefighter was male, a police officer was male, a hero still is male. It's only recently that our language has changed to be gender-neutral towards traditionally male professions, whereas women are still clarified as being female. This is almost certainly a product of feminism, but it should be clear to everyone that the genders aren't yet treated equally.
Because there is a difference between groups like fathers for justice, prostate cancer or male suicide awareness promoters, and "mens rights activists". The former try and fix legitimate problems pertainibg to men, the latter only use them for point scoring with feminists online while whining that society makes it hard for them to get laid.
Original post by Truths
Because it started off as a parody movement on the web.
But some people didn't catch the satire, I guess.
But some people didn't catch the satire, I guess.
I didn't think they had the internet in the 1920s(?). Liga für Menschenrechte: http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/worlds-first-mens-rights-organization.html
Although there are examples of Activism since the 1890s Early Men's Rights Activism against bachelor tax
Don't forget A bax wrote 2 books, 1 was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fraud_of_Feminism I wrote about it before; the book quotes are in italics
Spoiler
. Saying that if it was reactionary it has been >100 years.[video="youtube;PF_WLlMWk6U"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_WLlMWk6U[/video]
People do take the MRM seriously, it is fine if you don't see how it has progressed. I have noticed changes in last 4 years. (Hopefully will get my next post in)
Edit: I am for Woman's rights, I am against gynocentrism.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by rad_student
I didn't think they had the internet in the 1920s(?). Liga für Menschenrechte: http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/worlds-first-mens-rights-organization.html
Although there are examples of Activism since the 1890s Early Men's Rights Activism against bachelor tax
Don't forget A bax wrote 2 books, 1 was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fraud_of_Feminism I wrote about it before; the book quotes are in italics
There was 1 TSRian that kept saying the MRM was reactionary to Feminism. Hopefully you will link the book to others who say that, educate them . Saying that if it was reactionary it has been >100 years.
People do take the MRM seriously, it is fine if you don't see how it has progressed. I have noticed changes in last 4 years. (Hopefully will get my next post in)
Edit: I am for Woman's rights, I am against gynocentrism.
Although there are examples of Activism since the 1890s Early Men's Rights Activism against bachelor tax
Don't forget A bax wrote 2 books, 1 was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fraud_of_Feminism I wrote about it before; the book quotes are in italics
Spoiler
. Saying that if it was reactionary it has been >100 years.People do take the MRM seriously, it is fine if you don't see how it has progressed. I have noticed changes in last 4 years. (Hopefully will get my next post in)
Edit: I am for Woman's rights, I am against gynocentrism.
It's a real shame that you took the time to compile this tl;dr portfolio. Because had you actually read my post properly, you'd know that I was referring to the recent "resurgence" of MRA, "on the web". But cool story.
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
The Telegraph is not really a neutral source, it's a fairly right wing conservative one in favour of traditional masculinity etc. I mean the latest article I read re: 'men get objectified, real men don't care, man up and hit the gym' is basically Redpill for the masses
Original post by Truths
It's a real shame that you took the time to compile this tl;dr portfolio. Because had you actually read my post properly, you'd know that I was referring to the recent "resurgence" of MRA, "on the web". But cool story.
It's a real shame that you took the time to compile this tl;dr portfolio. Because had you actually read my post properly, you'd know that I was referring to the recent "resurgence" of MRA, "on the web". But cool story.
No bother at all (I reviewed BAX last year - copy & paste.), you can't say you don't know about the history of the MRM if you are too ignorant to read & understand, can you?
Have you ever heard of this "cool story" before? Did you know about the Men's Rights activism over the years? What's your take, I'm interested? You're not one of those that suffers from cognitive dissonance?
The resurgence is happening because more men have woken up & seen the devastation & the internet joins the dots - there are many men's web/youtube/blog sites & its growing.
Google Trends shows MRM in decrease compared to MGTOW because more men have decided to focus on themselves & check-out. Young women of today will feel the full brunt.
[video="youtube;PCpBa4ITEcI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCpBa4ITEcI[/video]
OP the only answer you need
The whole #Gamergate fiasco kinda showed how desperate feminism was to keep it's hierarchy and position as our moral and ethical overlords.... kinda like what they claim "the patriarchy" is doing.
The whole #Gamergate fiasco kinda showed how desperate feminism was to keep it's hierarchy and position as our moral and ethical overlords.... kinda like what they claim "the patriarchy" is doing.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by rad_student
No bother at all (I reviewed BAX last year - copy & paste.), you can't say you don't know about the history of the MRM if you are too ignorant to read & understand, can you?
Have you ever heard of this "cool story" before? Did you know about the Men's Rights activism over the years? What's your take, I'm interested? You're not one of those that suffers from cognitive dissonance?
The resurgence is happening because more men have woken up & seen the devastation & the internet joins the dots - there are many men's web/youtube/blog sites & its growing.
Google Trends shows MRM in decrease compared to MGTOW because more men have decided to focus on themselves & check-out. Young women of today will feel the full brunt.
Have you ever heard of this "cool story" before? Did you know about the Men's Rights activism over the years? What's your take, I'm interested? You're not one of those that suffers from cognitive dissonance?
The resurgence is happening because more men have woken up & seen the devastation & the internet joins the dots - there are many men's web/youtube/blog sites & its growing.
Google Trends shows MRM in decrease compared to MGTOW because more men have decided to focus on themselves & check-out. Young women of today will feel the full brunt.
I'm just answering the question posed in the thread. MRA became popular on internet originally through parody, despite it's supposed genuine or rational history - And that is why it isn't taken seriously today.
Btw, I'd be careful with acronyms on google trends because if you actually assessed each of the peaks you'd see that none of them are related to mens rights anyway. Sloppy. Off topic. D-
Btw, I'd be careful with acronyms on google trends because if you actually assessed each of the peaks you'd see that none of them are related to mens rights anyway. Sloppy. Off topic. D-
Original post by Truths
Where did you get that from?
In any case, I don't think that takes away from their observation. Their observation shared by many sources, even leftwing publications.
Anyway, that is the answer to the OP. Now you know.
In any case, I don't think that takes away from their observation. Their observation shared by many sources, even leftwing publications.
Anyway, that is the answer to the OP. Now you know.
'Notable by its absence was any form of serious protest from men, who, lest we forget, were the ones being endlessly objectified here.
And for that, I will be eternally proud of British men. Because we’re bigger than all this nonsense.
Sure, there were a few lame-o #Meninist groans of “stop objectifying men – I feel violated!” from dunderheads keen to launch futile torpedoes at HMS Feminism.
But those lonely howls of faux-protest were drowned out by the sound of collective hand-rubbing, dental flossing and growling into bathroom mirrors, as hopeful men prepare themselves for their amorous partners’ returns from girls’ nights out to Fifty Shades or Magic Mike screenings.
Our frankly tremendous response to all this male objectification hasn’t been “the world’s a terrible place, I might start a protest at change.org” but a very healthy “Mmm, what’s in it for me?” and a knowingly cynical “If I look more like these guys the women swoon over, I might get laid more often <Googles gym membership>”
So we don’t complain to Ofcom, or peevishly whinge to Everyday Sexism. We react sensibly – and get our arses to the gym so they’ll look better in David Beckham underpants.'
Original post by lucaf
Because there is a difference between groups like fathers for justice, prostate cancer or male suicide awareness promoters, and "mens rights activists". The former try and fix legitimate problems pertainibg to men, the latter only use them for point scoring with feminists online while whining that society makes it hard for them to get laid.
please link my friend? The Good Men Project is one of the few comprehensive, egalitarian sources I have on the matter
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Truths
I'm just answering the question posed in the thread. MRA became popular on internet originally through parody, despite it's supposed genuine or rational history - And that is why it isn't taken seriously today.
Btw, I'd be careful with acronyms on google trends because if you actually assessed each of the peaks you'd see that none of them are related to mens rights anyway. Sloppy. Off topic. D-
Btw, I'd be careful with acronyms on google trends because if you actually assessed each of the peaks you'd see that none of them are related to mens rights anyway. Sloppy. Off topic. D-
…and once upon a time men laughed at women discussing suffrage. Doesn't make it right to dismiss
Original post by DanB1991
OP the only answer you need
The whole #Gamergate fiasco kinda showed how desperate feminism was to keep it's hierarchy and position as our moral and ethical overlords.... kinda like what they claim "the patriarchy" is doing.
The whole #Gamergate fiasco kinda showed how desperate feminism was to keep it's hierarchy and position as our moral and ethical overlords.... kinda like what they claim "the patriarchy" is doing.
Didn't the whole #gamergate fiasco end in MRA sending thousands of death and rape threats.
Original post by lucaf
Because there is a difference between groups like fathers for justice, prostate cancer or male suicide awareness promoters, and "mens rights activists". The former try and fix legitimate problems pertainibg to men, the latter only use them for point scoring with feminists online while whining that society makes it hard for them to get laid.
So true!
Original post by miser
Interesting video. My initial reaction is that a lot of this cuts both ways. We hear about 'women' so much as a group (as opposed to 'men') perhaps precisely because they're thought to be weaker or unable to stand up for themselves. We care more about them because we think they're more vulnerable, making the headlines are more emotionally impactful. "Women and children" is a great example of that, where they're distinguished from men by their defencelessness, and harming the defenceless is, in our culture, that much more reprehensible than harming those who can stand up for themselves.
As for professions, women are always a "female this" or a "woman that", and never simply "a firefighter" or "a police officer", like men are. They can't escape their gender being brought into it, always influencing people to see them as more vulnerable or labelled as distinct from the gender-neutral "people" who are doing all the fighting, the rescuing and the dying. The men are thought not to need this fanfare because they're truly one of the team, doing the job unceremoniously as it's supposed to be done, and not weak, or there to meet a gender quota, or any such condescension.
The other thing to mention is that until recently, a lot of these words carried the assumption of masculinity. A firefighter was male, a police officer was male, a hero still is male. It's only recently that our language has changed to be gender-neutral towards traditionally male professions, whereas women are still clarified as being female. This is almost certainly a product of feminism, but it should be clear to everyone that the genders aren't yet treated equally.
As for professions, women are always a "female this" or a "woman that", and never simply "a firefighter" or "a police officer", like men are. They can't escape their gender being brought into it, always influencing people to see them as more vulnerable or labelled as distinct from the gender-neutral "people" who are doing all the fighting, the rescuing and the dying. The men are thought not to need this fanfare because they're truly one of the team, doing the job unceremoniously as it's supposed to be done, and not weak, or there to meet a gender quota, or any such condescension.
The other thing to mention is that until recently, a lot of these words carried the assumption of masculinity. A firefighter was male, a police officer was male, a hero still is male. It's only recently that our language has changed to be gender-neutral towards traditionally male professions, whereas women are still clarified as being female. This is almost certainly a product of feminism, but it should be clear to everyone that the genders aren't yet treated equally.
you reiterate a lot of what the video implies about male utility/disposability vs. victim mentality in modern women and I agree; I also have taken into account the bolded in my understanding of this subject, which in fairness to feminism is an example of language as a tool of patriarchy
As again noted in the comments for the Guardian article 'men are now objectified more than women' (dubious headline but I understand the sentiment)
'When it's men, they deserve it. When it's women, they are victims.
A lack of concern for the well being of men is the norm. Over concern for the well being of women is also the norm. Everybody cares more about women than they do about men. Western society goes out of its way to elevate women regardless of its cost to men. We tear men down as a means of building up women.
All of women's shortcomings are a result of oppression. All of men's shortcomings are their own fault.
Media is constantly teaching women, and Disney is now teaching female children, to belittle men and boys and to hold them nearly constantly in contempt.
It is oppressive to disagree with #likeagril, but it's not OK to think it's wrong to have a society which is constantly treating the male sex as oppressors, and now oppressors who are deserving of their objectification, or as bumbling, incompetent bafoons.'
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Odd socks
if MRAs stood up for trans men, black men, disabled men, campaigned for paternity rights, cared about male suicide rates more often than just using it to score points, actually did something other than harass feminists on the Internet then Id have more respect for them
Original post by молодой гений
I'd take men's rights activists seriously if they actually did something other than harass women on the internet.
Paternity leave, male rape victims being taken seriously, discussions around how harmful super-super "macho" masculinity can be for young boys, how "lad culture"/"peer pressure"/whatever it's called these days can make shyer guys' lives unnecessarily more difficult, men seen as "sissies" if they talk about their feelings... and yet...
Paternity leave, male rape victims being taken seriously, discussions around how harmful super-super "macho" masculinity can be for young boys, how "lad culture"/"peer pressure"/whatever it's called these days can make shyer guys' lives unnecessarily more difficult, men seen as "sissies" if they talk about their feelings... and yet...
OK maybe you can't see what's happening if you rely on the MSM (mainstream media) - the twisted & biased ways of reporting (will show e.g. with J4MB).
1st PUA or MGTOW or MRA.
PUAs aim is about sex - from trophy sex to wingman sex. It is good for understanding women & to improve yourself to be attractive to women (health, clothes, confidence). But I think there are some/many rip-off merchants.
MGTOWs- aim is to live protected from unfair laws that get activated when in contact with women &/or starve the system (Govt.) so it puts a stop to all the anti-men & pro women bias.
Don’t you know the Govt. relies on men’s labour? 72% income tax comes from men, but majority goes to women; http://judgybitch.com/2013/09/17/what-would-happen-if-no-men-showed-up-for-work-today ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nSSIBQcMGA
MRM – 4 years ago Red Pill used to refer to MRM. 1 area Men’s rights focuses on is gender neutral laws…
How about looking at MRM conferences. India (v. anti men as I have given examples before) had its 6th national meet http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/Ministry-for-mens-welfare/articleshow/40349667.cms
The 1st English speaking 1 last year had 3 well respected women begin the talk on 27/6/14.
- when you google for this notice the ‘criticism’ of journalists towing the feminist line.
A political party fighting for Men’s rights, who I fully support, are J4MB.
Manifesto Summary https://j4mb.wordpress.com/2015-general-election-manifesto where you can find the manifesto. I noticed on TSR a “Is this for real?!” for a site that misrepresented J4MB – I accurately quoted & wrote what the manifesto was saying
http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3084741&page=2&p=52960975#post52960975 & then copy+pasted my text to that Disqus website – it got pending then rejected! Maybe a woman can have a go.
You are probably seeing the same Lies with Meninism. “Never getting laid” shaming language doesn’t work with MRA’s never mind this lot. If it was cheaper I’d buy 1 & wear it. They have made their Sex Consent Card as “Yes is Yes” comes into rape law.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win – Ghandi.
MRM is at fight stage, wearing Meninsm Tshirts are more at laugh although there are pictures where men (not women) wearing these T-shirts are being physically attacked. When I joined Indian FB pages a few years back, I was shocked to see so many Indian men put MRA or Masculinist as part of their FB name.
Why I became a Black Men’s Rights Activist: A reader responds http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/why-i-became-a-black-mens-rights-activist-a-reader-responds/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sGn6PdmIo 1981 – just like black people, women are not paid less.
The MRM is trying to go mainstream, not just the internet. The MSM are saying that they can make money out of the MRM so expect more media coverage, hence Sexodus articles.
There have been changes in the law wrt to Residence Orders & judges have been encouraged to be less involved in the day-to-day. At a Fnf.org.uk meeting I learnt more, but can’t remember. I will still fight for the assumption of equal “co-parenting” if safe.
So I disagree with OP, they are making a difference, they have learnt from the past (being nice does not work or get you noticed).
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
…and once upon a time men laughed at women discussing suffrage. Doesn't make it right to dismiss
Don’t forget women supporting men’s rights as experienced, not just seeing the misandry. They put strong arguments as well. E.g. Women's suffrage, Feminism's first act of female supremacy [video="youtube;eyIQJT8x1vg"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyIQJT8x1vg[/video]
Original post by Truths
Didn't the whole #gamergate fiasco end in MRA sending thousands of death and rape threats. So true!
I'm just answering the question posed in the thread. MRA became popular on internet originally through parody, despite it's supposed genuine or rational history - And that is why it isn't taken seriously today.
I'm just answering the question posed in the thread. MRA became popular on internet originally through parody, despite it's supposed genuine or rational history - And that is why it isn't taken seriously today.
Have you been talking to Gamers? Where the parent firm of Jezebel lost millions in advertising!! Here is 1 that turned egalitarian after all this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOq5RJABhEc
What year (or month-year) did you Truths know that MRA became popular on internet originally through parody?
Did u learn anything wrt to the 1st video af acting & acted upon? Did you even understand?!
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Truths
I'm just answering the question posed in the thread. MRA became popular on internet originally through parody, despite it's supposed genuine or rational history - And that is why it isn't taken seriously today.
Btw, I'd be careful with acronyms on google trends because if you actually assessed each of the peaks you'd see that none of them are related to mens rights anyway. Sloppy. Off topic. D-
Btw, I'd be careful with acronyms on google trends because if you actually assessed each of the peaks you'd see that none of them are related to mens rights anyway. Sloppy. Off topic. D-
Well seeing here in the UK the MRA's have been around in the public sphere since the late 90's. However due to feminism's dominating presence in the media it was never given much legitimacy or notice. You actually have many pro MRA literature coming from feminist's from the 80's (only for them to be dubbed anti-feminist's since then).
There's been no starting point of the MRA's popularity on the internet, it's simply made other followers realise how wide the movements is, just look at one of Karen Straughan's talks where she explained the effect. You basically had something many people believed, but due to media and mainstream coverage thought themselves as a minority, thanks to the internet people have slowly realised they were not actually as much as a minority as they previously presumed.
Things such as Gamergate and amateur feminist's such as Anita sarkeesian (who completely ignore any corrections to feminist theories from feminist's themselves), are now getting wide scale internet coverage, this has now created a topic and space where people are now for once becoming highly vocal and critical.
Original post by Truths
Also I DO hope you realise that there is no such thing as a "neutral" publication.
No medium is entirely neutral but some are far more biased and un-representative of the whole than others.
Original post by Truths
Didn't the whole #gamergate fiasco end in MRA sending thousands of death and rape threats.
Didn't the whole #gamergate fiasco end in both sides sending thousands of death and rape threats to each other? Christina Hoff Sommers was one such pro-GG's who received a campaign of abuse frtom anti's after her husband died.
FFS this is the internet, every time people spout that rubbish I believe they honestly forget what they're on.
I remember when all the anti's started saying they were in hiding or called the police due to the threats, when in reality A) such things had occurred previously to no such response B) Most twitter or youtube personalities receive such things, no matter what and C) Any political entity online will receive such things even more so. Hell does David Cameron complain when someone post's similar things on his official FB or twitter? No....
Original post by DanB1991
There's been no starting point of the MRA's popularity on the internet, it's simply made other followers realise how wide the movements is, just look at one of Karen Straughan's talks where she explained the effect. You basically had something many people believed, but due to media and mainstream coverage thought themselves as a minority, thanks to the internet people have slowly realised they were not actually as much as a minority as they previously presumed.
Lol. We are still in denial of that this trend is happening.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/15/mens-rights-millennial-males-canada_n_3061876.html
http://www.salon.com/2011/03/29/scott_adams_mens_rights_movement/
http://www.businessinsider.com/mens-rights-activists-make-false-rape-reports-at-occidental-2013-12?IR=T
Original post by Smash Bandicoot
No medium is entirely neutral but some are far more biased and un-representative of the whole than others.
It's all subjective. There isn't any reason for Telegraph to lie on that account.
Original post by DanB1991
Didn't the whole #gamergate fiasco end in both sides sending thousands of death and rape threats to each other?
Gerl you know this didn't happen. Give it up.
Original post by Truths
Lol. We are still in denial of that this trend is happening.
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/15/mens-rights-millennial-males-canada_n_3061876.html
http://www.salon.com/2011/03/29/scott_adams_mens_rights_movement/
http://www.businessinsider.com/mens-rights-activists-make-false-rape-reports-at-occidental-2013-12?IR=T
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/04/15/mens-rights-millennial-males-canada_n_3061876.html
http://www.salon.com/2011/03/29/scott_adams_mens_rights_movement/
http://www.businessinsider.com/mens-rights-activists-make-false-rape-reports-at-occidental-2013-12?IR=T
Again nothing new, Warren Farrell for example started his studies in the late 80's. His first "Why Men Are The Way They Are" came out around 1986 and "The Myth of Male Power" in 1993. In the 90's there was a surge in MRA's.
The more recent raise is due to media based feminism being unable to suppress it via the internet. The MRA's from the 90's never left, they were just left feeling they were a minority, plus a new tech savy generation has joined their ranks.
It's like saying feminism has arisen due to the internet, which in reality is not the case, it's simply a new channel to spread idea's.
Like what are you even trying to argue here? MRA's current popularity suddenly sprouted out of the modern internet on twitter, reddit and 4chan? I would suggest they existed beforehand just used these spaces to come together.
Original post by Truths
Gerl you know this didn't happen. Give it up.
Really now? I remember quite well how when pro GG's were sending her flowers when he died and the main page was attacked by anti-GG's.
You also have many pro-GG youtubers who've received just as much abuse.
Here's an actually pretty decent video..... good example at the end too of abuse from someone who wasn't initially pro-GG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoucuL1jazI
Best quote ever "Gamer Gate can be summed up in one sentence 'The news is full of ****' ".
(edited 9 years ago)
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