Why isn't Britain spending more on defence?

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Thomas2
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Apparently we can't defend ourselves and yet none of the politicians want to talk about defence. Even the tories want another round of defence cuts after the election and yet the general consensus is that we have cut back much too far already.
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uberteknik
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(Original post by Thomas2)
Apparently we can't defend ourselves and yet none of the politicians want to talk about defence. Even the tories want another round of defence cuts after the election and yet the general consensus is that we have cut back much too far already.
Depends on what is meant by defence.

Is it for purely national integrity or is it a wider regional capability as part of our commitment to NATO and the EU or global power policing capability allied to the U.S.?

No sovereign country will attack the UK because that will bring the U.S. and NATO into direct conflict with them as well.

Russia knows full well that the U.K. has a highly credible independent nuclear deterrent, and whilst not large enough to annihilate a large scale opponent like Russia, it can destroy every major city, all major industrial capability and civilian infrastructure as well as inflicting terminal damage to the conventional forces of that country.

The key question is, do we need enough military capability to fight wars on behalf of other nations and project military advantage across the globe?

Going back to the first question, we have enough military capability to protect our islands from all but the largest of aggressor which pretty much means only Russia is part of that equation. Even China does not have the same capability to project global military power as the UK currently enjoys - more so when the QE2 class carriers are commissioned. That may well change in the coming decades as China continues to build it's naval strength.

As for the second part, our capability to project military power as a stand alone nation has necessarily diminished mainly due to the cripplingly high costs of development and procurement of a modern state-of-the-art capability, together with maintaining an overseas credible presence.

The main issue with Russia is that the EU does not have a solid defence policy of it's own outside of the NATO defence umbrella.

Collective defence works to a point. War by referendum is the outcome.
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Zargabaath
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(Original post by Thomas2)
Apparently we can't defend ourselves and yet none of the politicians want to talk about defence. Even the tories want another round of defence cuts after the election and yet the general consensus is that we have cut back much too far already.
Do you have any evidence we can't defend ourselves?
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caravaggio2
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We 're broke.?
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Aj12
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(Original post by uberteknik)
Depends on what is meant by defence.

Is it for purely national integrity or is it a wider regional capability as part of our commitment to NATO and the EU or global power policing capability allied to the U.S.?

No sovereign country will attack the UK because that will bring the U.S. and NATO into direct conflict with them as well.

Russia knows full well that the U.K. has a highly credible independent nuclear deterrent, and whilst not large enough to annihilate a large scale opponent like Russia, it can destroy every major city, all major industrial capability and civilian infrastructure as well as inflicting terminal damage to the conventional forces of that country.

The key question is, do we need enough military capability to fight wars on behalf of other nations and project military advantage across the globe?

Going back to the first question, we have enough military capability to protect our islands from all but the largest of aggressor which pretty much means only Russia is part of that equation. Even China does not have the same capability to project global military power as the UK currently enjoys - more so when the QE2 class carriers are commissioned. That may well change in the coming decades as China continues to build it's naval strength.

As for the second part, our capability to project military power as a stand alone nation has necessarily diminished mainly due to the cripplingly high costs of development and procurement of a modern state-of-the-art capability, together with maintaining an overseas credible presence.

The main issue with Russia is that the EU does not have a solid defence policy of it's own outside of the NATO defence umbrella.

Collective defence works to a point. War by referendum is the outcome.
This.

Can't help but feel these claims we can't defend ourselves are alarmist rubbish. Even at the height of the cold war we did't stand a chance against Russia alone. Hence a nuclear deterrent and nato.


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Thomas2
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(Original post by Zargabaath)
Do you have any evidence we can't defend ourselves?
Apparently we don't have enough planes. Six squadrons !!! Also the Argentines are buying a new Swedish fighter-bomber that is better and cheaper than the JSF, so that scuppers our ability to defend the Falklands.

UK may have some very good items e.g. the new destroyers but 1 ship can only be in 1 place at 1 time.
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Rakas21
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Because we are led by populists who follow public opinion rather than representatives who act based on informed consent. We also have too many people who think that Britain must relegate itself to being a minor power.

The problem here is not the ability to defend the Falklands or the UK, we can do that. The problem here is that our forces are not large enough to engage in anything that does not involve the US.
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Aj12
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(Original post by Thomas2)
Apparently we don't have enough planes. Six squadrons !!! Also the Argentines are buying a new Swedish fighter-bomber that is better and cheaper than the JSF, so that scuppers our ability to defend the Falklands.

UK may have some very good items e.g. the new destroyers but 1 ship can only be in 1 place at 1 time.
The Argentinians are not buying a Swedish Fighter Bomber, they were blocked in their attempts to do so and are instead buying a very old Russian multi role fighter that is nothing on a Typhoon. Given the domestic turmoil and lack of any will for a fight I doubt we have much to worry about from them.
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uberteknik
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(Original post by TSRantiWhite)
Why do we need defending? so long as we don't declare war on Russia, all is fine.

NATO are the aggressor's and the West's involvement in this mess in Ukraine is obvious. You don't stage coup's of a neighbouring countries government and put in a load of anti-Russian's who threaten not just Russia but Ukraine's Russian population. Millions have fled Ukraine and gone to Russia.
Crikey. Where have you been hiding since the collapse of the U.S.S.R. and the Berlin Wall came down?

Ukraine is a Sovereign State under international law as signed and agreed with Russia.

You have been watching far too much state controlled Putin-the-Great propaganda T.V.
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SerenityNow
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Because 'murica got your back, like with the entire west.

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Zargabaath
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(Original post by Thomas2)
Apparently we don't have enough planes. Six squadrons !!! Also the Argentines are buying a new Swedish fighter-bomber that is better and cheaper than the JSF, so that scuppers our ability to defend the Falklands.

UK may have some very good items e.g. the new destroyers but 1 ship can only be in 1 place at 1 time.
Where are you getting the information from though? Who is saying the number of planes we have is inadequate? I'm not to knowledgeable on this myself, that's why I'm asking.

Personally I doubt it's in any developed nations interest to actually go to war with the UK and if we were really threatened by a rebel group on our own soil I think we could defend ourselves. Again, I'm not an expert on this so I might be wrong.
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Izzyeviel
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America will never come to the aid of Britain. It'll be upto the Germans and French to save us.
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Thomas2
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(Original post by Aj12)
The Argentinians are not buying a Swedish Fighter Bomber, they were blocked in their attempts to do so and are instead buying a very old Russian multi role fighter that is nothing on a Typhoon. Given the domestic turmoil and lack of any will for a fight I doubt we have much to worry about from them.
Who blocked them?
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Caucasian Rights
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Russia has millions of tough gritty troops willing to die while the coalition force in Iraq and Afghanistan make a big deal over a few thousand soldiers lives lost. Can you imagine if we went to war? troops on the ground are still important even in today's warfare you can't win purely by air.
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caravaggio2
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Zarg said-

"Personally I doubt it's in any developed nations interest to actually go to war with the UK and if we were really threatened by a rebel group on our own soil I think we could defend ourselves. Again, I'm not an expert on this so I might be wrong."


Have you seen the vast majority of responses on here to national device, let alone called up for a war?
If we we're confronted with more than our regular armed forces could deal with we would be toast.p
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DarrenBCFC
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(Original post by Thomas2)
Apparently we can't defend ourselves and yet none of the politicians want to talk about defence. Even the tories want another round of defence cuts after the election and yet the general consensus is that we have cut back much too far already.
We don't need to worry about this issue we have plenty of weaponary and more people will be drafted to the army as well
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Aj12
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(Original post by Thomas2)
Who blocked them?
We did as they had British technology in them. We also blocked them from buying Israeli fighters. This has been on going for awhile.


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caravaggio2
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(Original post by Izzyeviel)
America will never come to the aid of Britain. It'll be upto the Germans and French to save us.
Christ on a rope....once again.....we're toast.
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al_94
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You warmongers won't stop until the bombs reach British shores.
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Gwilym101
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What planet are you on?

We only about four countries in the world (USA, India, Russia and China) spend more money on defence than we do. We're fifth in the world for military spending.
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