Muslim countries are better than you think

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lostwanderer
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#1
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#1
I'm always hearing people go on about how Muslim countries are hell holes and so backward,but this is down to ignorance imo. All of you making claims about Muslim countries,have you ever been to one? Or do you simply rely on reports of atrocities happening in them. Yes,certain things happen in them which are 'backwards', but people often blame this on Islam,rather than the culture. Muslim countries are more progressive than you think. You only need to visit places like Jordan,Lebanon,Tunisia etc.. to see this. Places like Pakistan are also progressing. The Middle East used to be great,but foreign policy,colonialism and wars ****ed it up. Have people forgotten the golden age of the Arab world , when numerous scientific advances were made. I guess it's easier to blame Islam for regress,and ignore the works of great Muslim scientists and philosopers.
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lostwanderer
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#2
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#2
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Quady
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#3
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#3
(Original post by lostwanderer)
Have people forgotten the golden age of the Arab world , when numerous scientific advances were made. I guess it's easier to blame Islam for regress,and ignore the works of great Muslim scientists and philosopers.
Well yes, in fact I never even knew it since it was between the 8th and 14th centuries...

Wahhabism basically wants to take people back to that time.

And yes I've been to a moslim country, Egypt, back in 2006 before it all kicked off there, the food was terrible and the best culture there was made before 'the prophet Jesus' was was a wink in a goat herder's eye.
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felamaslen
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#4
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#4
The Muslim world looked great in comparison to 10th century Europe, sure. That's because 10th century Europe was in the middle of the dark ages. (10th century America was tribal and backwards, as was Australia).

Nowadays, the West (and East Asia, and just about everywhere else apart from sub-Saharan Africa) trump the Muslim world on every level. The Muslim world is an embarrassment to humanity in its current form.

That's not to say that it doesn't have potential, if it recognises the achievements of the West and follows them (as East Asia has been doing very successfully, minus North Korea and (in a political-freedom sense) China, and of course the oppressive communist state of Vietnam).
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Rakas21
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#5
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#5
(Original post by lostwanderer)
I'm always hearing people go on about how Muslim countries are hell holes and so backward,but this is down to ignorance imo. All of you making claims about Muslim countries,have you ever been to one? Or do you simply rely on reports of atrocities happening in them. Yes,certain things happen in them which are 'backwards', but people often blame this on Islam,rather than the culture. Muslim countries are more progressive than you think. You only need to visit places like Jordan,Lebanon,Tunisia etc.. to see this. Places like Pakistan are also progressing. The Middle East used to be great,but foreign policy,colonialism and wars ****ed it up. Have people forgotten the golden age of the Arab world , when numerous scientific advances were made. I guess it's easier to blame Islam for regress,and ignore the works of great Muslim scientists and philosopers.
Jordan has a monarchy which actively reigns in the Muslims. That's not a bad thing though as i think constitutional monarchies could be good for the Middle East.

Tunisia, (credit to them) is the only Arab Spring country that has actively elected a secular government rather than voting for the nutty Muslim Brotherhood.

Lebanon has terrorists in the government.

..

I'm sure there are some good examples in the Arab world but there is a swathe of countries from Syria-Iraq-Iran-Afghanistan-Pakistan that are stains on our planet. The rest are not as bad (though not good) but at least you have the likes of Morroco, Tunisia and Jordan giving some hope for the future.
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Quady
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#6
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#6
(Original post by Rakas21)
Jordan has a monarchy which actively reigns in the Muslims. That's not a bad thing though as i think constitutional monarchies could be good for the Middle East.

Tunisia, (credit to them) is the only Arab Spring country that has actively elected a secular government rather than voting for the nutty Muslim Brotherhood.

Lebanon has terrorists in the government.

..

I'm sure there are some good examples in the Arab world but there is a swathe of countries from Syria-Iraq-Iran-Afghanistan-Pakistan that are stains on our planet. The rest are not as bad (though not good) but at least you have the likes of Morroco, Tunisia and Jordan giving some hope for the future.
Jordan still has a gdp/capita of $5,200. If that's a good example then...
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Rakas21
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Quady)
Jordan still has a gdp/capita of $5,200. If that's a good example then...
Sure, but it at least seems half sane.
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childofthesun
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#8
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Lebanon isn't a Muslim country

A problem is also the ruling governments in some Muslim countries that are oppressive, and hateful regimes that reflect poorly on the normal everyday people in those countries. Like you mentioned countries like Tunisia are progressing in terms of democracy and equal rights.But i guess many Muslims see secularism as being incompatible with Islam.
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Darab_1496
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#9
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#9
What about Dubai? Or the UAE as a whole
Every country has problems, including the uk n us but I somewhat feel in countries in the Middle East and other majority Muslim countries such as Pakistan,people from the west are more ready to blame the faith (esp.if it's Islam) of the person or group involved in the misdeed than the actual person(s) and more ready to suggest a satanical government (if the government rules by Islamic laws or sharia) EVEN IF their government is just acting more bluntly but with similar consequences as western countries. I don't condone such governments at all, but people need to look at their own country n see it's not perfect before they go out trying to fix someone else's


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TheBBQ
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#10
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#10
Lol how is Pakistan progressing? Ever since the partition their leaders and government have become more crazy with each year.
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Rakas21
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#11
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#11
(Original post by Darab_1496)
What about Dubai? Or the UAE as a whole
Every country has problems, including the uk n us but I somewhat feel in countries in the Middle East and other majority Muslim countries such as Pakistan,people from the west are more ready to blame the faith (esp.if it's Islam) of the person or group involved in the misdeed than the actual person(s) and more ready to suggest a satanical government (if the government rules by Islamic laws or sharia) EVEN IF their government is just acting more bluntly but with similar consequences as western countries. I don't condone such governments at all, but people need to look at their own country n see it's not perfect before they go out trying to fix someone else's

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The Gulf states are wealthy but they are also very oppressive. I do have high hopes that they can transition towards constitutional monarchies though over time.

(Original post by TheBBQ)
Lol how is Pakistan progressing? Ever since the partition their leaders and government have become more crazy with each year.
Pakistan's not even a functional state, there are parts of it near the Afghan border where it's essentially ungoverned.
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Time Tourist
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#12
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#12
(Original post by lostwanderer)
The Middle East used to be great,but foreign policy,colonialism and wars ****ed it up. Have people forgotten the golden age of the Arab world , when numerous scientific advances were made.
Always someone else's fault, isn't it.
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Time Tourist
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#13
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#13
(Original post by Darab_1496)
What about Dubai?
Yes, there is a booming slave trade there.
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lostwanderer
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#14
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#14
(Original post by Time Tourist)
Always someone else's fault, isn't it.
In this case? It is
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lostwanderer
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#15
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#15
(Original post by Rakas21)
Jordan has a monarchy which actively reigns in the Muslims. That's not a bad thing though as i think constitutional monarchies could be good for the Middle East.

Tunisia, (credit to them) is the only Arab Spring country that has actively elected a secular government rather than voting for the nutty Muslim Brotherhood.

Lebanon has terrorists in the government.

..

I'm sure there are some good examples in the Arab world but there is a swathe of countries from Syria-Iraq-Iran-Afghanistan-Pakistan that are stains on our planet. The rest are not as bad (though not good) but at least you have the likes of Morroco, Tunisia and Jordan giving some hope for the future.
Who are the terrorists in Lebanon's government?

Those countries you mentioned werent always so bad. Take Iraq for example, Baghdad was the science capital of the world. Iran used to be so liberal and free, and Syria to some extent pre-civil war.
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lostwanderer
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#16
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#16
(Original post by childofthesun)
Lebanon isn't a Muslim country

A problem is also the ruling governments in some Muslim countries that are oppressive, and hateful regimes that reflect poorly on the normal everyday people in those countries. Like you mentioned countries like Tunisia are progressing in terms of democracy and equal rights.But i guess many Muslims see secularism as being incompatible with Islam.
My bad, I meant Muslim majority.

Do you see(or would you like to see) Lebanon become a Muslim state in the future?
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SiminaM
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#17
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#17
All non western countries are better than people think.
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Rakas21
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#18
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#18
(Original post by lostwanderer)
Who are the terrorists in Lebanon's government?

Those countries you mentioned werent always so bad. Take Iraq for example, Baghdad was the science capital of the world. Iran used to be so liberal and free, and Syria to some extent pre-civil war.
Hezbollah.

Sure, but past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

Once the British went Iraq invaded Israel, a decade later the monarchy collapsed and then it basically collapsed until being ruled by the tyrant that was Saddam.

Iran until 1989 was wealthier than Turkey in GDP per capita yet they had a Muslim revolution, nationalized everything and spent the next decade arguing with Iraq. It's GDP per capita in 1986 was not reached again until 2008. That revolution cost the Iranian people two decades.

Syria is ruled by a dictatorship and according to the UN has suffered damage comparable to WW2 and will take 30 years to recover it's GDP even if the war stopped tomorrow because over 80% of business has closed down. Not only that, but the Kurds have taken the north east of the country and they will never give that back even if ISIS is defeated.

I have little faith in any as things stand.
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Time Tourist
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#19
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#19
(Original post by lostwanderer)
In this case? It is

Why, are Muslims some how less responsible for themselves than Westerners?
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childofthesun
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#20
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#20
(Original post by lostwanderer)
My bad, I meant Muslim majority.

Do you see(or would you like to see) Lebanon become a Muslim state in the future?
No, and no!!
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