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Leeds, Exeter, Queen Mary or Birmingham

Hey,

Simply which of these uni's should I pick to study law. Which one as an allround package should I pick?

Thank you
(edited 9 years ago)

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Don't know about the other ones but I live near Leeds and I went to have a look around the uni for a medicine taster day. I think Leeds as a city is pretty varied, there's lots to do but at the same time there are parts that are quite rough haha. Nightlife is very good in Leeds too. At the university everyone was really friendly and down to earth, more so than at other unis I've looked around. The uni is also really central so that's good too. Maybe have a look at the league tables as well to factor in to your decision. :smile:
Original post by M-P-JxX
Hey,

Simply which of these uni's should I pick to study law. Which one as an allround package should I pick?

Thank you


If you want to have access to London law firms, then it's clear that you should choose Queen Mary.

However, outside London, all three universities are good, but I would choose Birmingham over the other two.
Personally if you want a big city for Nightlife etc, dont pick Exeter, the other 3 should be decent.

If you want sport, probably go Birmingham they usually do pretty well and have good sporting infrastructure.

For your course its ranked; 1. QM 2. Exeter 3. Birmingham 4. Leeds (if you are a league table believer).

But overall they are all decent universities, should provide a decent degree and extra curricular stuff, in regards to jobs, not sure about Law but normally the location of the uni doesnt affect where you can work afterwards, just because QM is in London doesnt mean it will provide the best oppo of a job in London.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 4
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M-P-JxX
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Original post by WishIHadRevised
Don't know about the other ones but I live near Leeds and I went to have a look around the uni for a medicine taster day. I think Leeds as a city is pretty varied, there's lots to do but at the same time there are parts that are quite rough haha. Nightlife is very good in Leeds too. At the university everyone was really friendly and down to earth, more so than at other unis I've looked around. The uni is also really central so that's good too. Maybe have a look at the league tables as well to factor in to your decision. :smile:


Thank you for your reply! How big is leeds roughly?
Birmingham.
Original post by M-P-JxX
Thank you for your reply! How big is leeds roughly?


758,000 people roughly (3rd biggest city in the UK) but if you go 30 mins out of Leeds with the train you're in the Dales with loads of countryside. There's also Leeds carnival and Leeds fest which is pretty sweet and the center has a very good selection of shops (Trinity is amazing). Have you visited any of the unis you mentioned? :smile:
Reply 7
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Original post by WishIHadRevised
758,000 people roughly (3rd biggest city in the UK) but if you go 30 mins out of Leeds with the train you're in the Dales with loads of countryside. There's also Leeds carnival and Leeds fest which is pretty sweet and the center has a very good selection of shops (Trinity is amazing). Have you visited any of the unis you mentioned? :smile:


I have visited Exeter, (have friends who go there) I live in London already and I once accidentally got the bus to Birmingham haha! So all I need to do is visits
leeds and birmingham properly!
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by zero_Gravity91
If you want to have access to London law firms, then it's clear that you should choose Queen Mary.

.


That's not really true. Being in the same city doesn't = job at firms in same city. Otherwise London Met would be a shoe in for a magic circle job.

Exeter would be the wisest choice for someone aiming for the City. For Queen Mary's are a complete nobody. Do not confuse them with KCL/UCL/LSE- it's a totally different league.
I would choose Queen Mary as they have an awesome faculty for Law. They are ranked 3rd in the UK by the Guardian for Law (Just after Oxbridge) so they are very prestigious for the course.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by M-P-JxX
Hey,

Simply which of these uni's should I pick to study law. Which one as an allround package should I pick?

Thank you


On academics/job potential (it's what I know about, others can advise on the rest):

Exeter as your first choice- good law school, regularly see Exeter grad at a lot of City firms. A few of the more picky US firms have begun to recruit from Exeter or give vac schemes to their students.

Birmingham or Leeds: both pretty similar. Solid, but not really much more. Certainly viable options for getting a training contract at very good firms, though perhaps less respected/well seen in City firms than Exeter (especially Birmingham).

Queen Mary's- a nobody in the law world. A lot of people don't even realise they offer law. Struggle with student numbers, overwhelmingly international students. Trying to piggyback off KCL/LSE/UCL's excellent reputation and delude people with their grade requirements. Personally I think you'd be crazy to pick them over the other 3 for law.

(If the bar is your area of interest then Exeter/Leeds are probably the slightly better choices, with Birmingham close behind)
Reply 11
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Original post by jenkinsear
On academics/job potential (it's what I know about, others can advise on the rest):

Exeter as your first choice- good law school, regularly see Exeter grad at a lot of City firms. A few of the more picky US firms have begun to recruit from Exeter or give vac schemes to their students.

Birmingham or Leeds: both pretty similar. Solid, but not really much more. Certainly viable options for getting a training contract at very good firms, though perhaps less respected/well seen in City firms than Exeter (especially Birmingham).

Queen Mary's- a nobody in the law world. A lot of people don't even realise they offer law. Struggle with student numbers, overwhelmingly international students. Trying to piggyback off KCL/LSE/UCL's excellent reputation and delude people with their grade requirements. Personally I think you'd be crazy to pick them over the other 3 for law.

(If the bar is your area of interest then Exeter/Leeds are probably the slightly better choices, with Birmingham close behind)


Im sure queen mary cannot be that bad! It's 3rd and 9th for law in the guardian and complete university guide as raymat has said already and it's A*AA requirement for a levels!
Original post by M-P-JxX
Im sure queen mary cannot be that bad! It's 3rd and 9th for law in the guardian and complete university guide as raymat has said already and it's A*AA requirement for a levels!


Ah the league table fallacy.... So let's think about this like lawyers. I'm a University. I know exactly how these tables are calculated and what they look at in calculating them each year, because they are effectively unchanged in methodology for 20 years. I'm obviously keen to get the highest position possible, so do everything possible to facilitate the highest scores possible in these tables. For instance I know some of the tables give additional points for a large number of international students/tutors, so I decide to focus on recruiting a lot of these. My ranking consequently rises. Does that mean I actually have a good law school, or does it mean I am good at understanding and abusing rankings?

The grade requirement is another example. All the tables take into account average grades achieved and give a higher ranking to those whose students have the highest grades. Does it make the law school better if they don't take anyone with AAA? Is everyone with AAA worse than those with A*AA? I think we all know the answer is no. Otherwise why would you see Oxford still taking people who get AAA, who then go on to win faculty prizes and pupillages at top chambers several years on? Entry grades of students do not = accurate reflection of the quality of the law school, simply a statistical approach to arbitrarily select students.

League tables, be they for schools or universities, should be viewed with a great deal of suspicion.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by THEREALWORLD
eh yo jenkins you are talking rubbish mate, you are like Mr Din just hiding behind the screen.


Your English is inspiring. A bard in waiting.

Original post by THEREALWORLD
if you know about law you know QM is well recognised and sponsored by some of the top law firms in the country including 3 magic circle firms,


Another of the awful fallacies. "Sponsored by law firms"- you do know that counts for little? How many trainees from QMUL have the Magic Circle taken in the last year? That is more of an indicator than them paying £500 for some uni sport kit to get their name on it to boost brand recognition/spend the marketing budget...

Original post by THEREALWORLD
and from next year they are offering a programme with a reed smith internship.


Yes I'm aware of that. I don't actually see that as a good thing for students. Turn up for firms with that on your cv and some will rightly think "what's the point in taking them for a vac scheme/interviewing them/making them an offer when they will just go to Reed Smith". Or they may think "hmmm Reed Smith had them for a year and didn't make them a training contract offer.... there must be something wrong with them". Not a complete positive as you fail to highlight.

There's also the fact that the number of places is tiny and just being used as a marketing gimmick. What % of students will be on this scheme? I believe it's not going to be above 1%. Even 1% may be optimistic.

Original post by THEREALWORLD
Mate get in the REAL WORLD before you are lost forever

TRW


I think my comments above demonstrate a more thorough understanding of "the real world" than your posts here so far.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by M-P-JxX
I have visited Exeter, (have friends who go there) I live in London already and I once accidentally got the bus to Birmingham haha! So all I need to do is visits
leeds and birmingham properly!


Ah okay don't worry I wasn't having a go I was just going to say go for the one you felt most at home at that's all. :smile: Personally I really like Leeds but the campus is a tad concrete clad in parts and you have to decide whether you want to live in the North for a while.
Original post by jenkinsear
Your English is inspiring. A bard in waiting.



Another of the awful fallacies. "Sponsored by law firms"- you do know that counts for little? How many trainees from QMUL have the Magic Circle taken in the last year? That is more of an indicator than them paying £500 for some uni sport kit to get their name on it to boost brand recognition/spend the marketing budget...



Yes I'm aware of that. I don't actually see that as a good thing for students. Turn up for firms with that on your cv and some will rightly think "what's the point in taking them for a vac scheme/interviewing them/making them an offer when they will just go to Reed Smith". Or they may think "hmmm Reed Smith had them for a year and didn't make them a training contract offer.... there must be something wrong with them". Not a complete positive as you fail to highlight.

There's also the fact that the number of places is tiny and just being used as a marketing gimmick. What % of students will be on this scheme? I believe it's not going to be above 1%. Even 1% may be optimistic.



I think my comments above demonstrate a more thorough understanding of "the real world" than your posts here so far.


ps out of interest which uni do you study at?
Original post by jenkinsear
Ah the league table fallacy.... So let's think about this like lawyers. I'm a University. I know exactly how these tables are calculated and what they look at in calculating them each year, because they are effectively unchanged in methodology for 20 years. I'm obviously keen to get the highest position possible, so do everything possible to facilitate the highest scores possible in these tables. For instance I know some of the tables give additional points for a large number of international students/tutors, so I decide to focus on recruiting a lot of these. My ranking consequently rises. Does that mean I actually have a good law school, or does it mean I am good at understanding and abusing rankings?

League tables, be they for schools or universities, should be viewed with a great deal of suspicion.


You sound like a conspiracy theorist. Yes, there are some flaws with the university ranking system but all-in-all the majority of people would agree it's a reliable source of information.

Obviously universities aim to climb up the league table and if they achieve that, why would that take anything away from their credibility? If we take Exeter as an example, an increasingly prestigious university but what is this down to I hear you ask? They've had huge investment which allows better research in departments (such as Law), subsequently attracting more international students and enhancing student satisfaction/graduate prospects. I go there and bloody love it.

That's why it's high in the league tables and the same goes for Queen Mary. Why does 'playing the game' take anything away from the university when in the process the department is only getting stronger?
Original post by jenkinsear
That's not really true. Being in the same city doesn't = job at firms in same city. Otherwise London Met would be a shoe in for a magic circle job.

Exeter would be the wisest choice for someone aiming for the City. For Queen Mary's are a complete nobody. Do not confuse them with KCL/UCL/LSE- it's a totally different league.


Well I don't necessarily mean that you will be guaranteed a job at a city firm, but there are more networking opportunities and events given that city firms do visit London universities more often.

With that being said, it is true that Queen Mary is nowhere near the universities you've mentioned, but its location does put it in an advantageous position.
Original post by jenkinsear
On academics/job potential (it's what I know about, others can advise on the rest):

Exeter as your first choice- good law school, regularly see Exeter grad at a lot of City firms. A few of the more picky US firms have begun to recruit from Exeter or give vac schemes to their students.

Birmingham or Leeds: both pretty similar. Solid, but not really much more. Certainly viable options for getting a training contract at very good firms, though perhaps less respected/well seen in City firms than Exeter (especially Birmingham).

Queen Mary's- a nobody in the law world. A lot of people don't even realise they offer law. Struggle with student numbers, overwhelmingly international students. Trying to piggyback off KCL/LSE/UCL's excellent reputation and delude people with their grade requirements. Personally I think you'd be crazy to pick them over the other 3 for law.

(If the bar is your area of interest then Exeter/Leeds are probably the slightly better choices, with Birmingham close behind)

You are in your world of your own and make statements that cannot even be backed up.

Have you studied at any of the universities above in order to comment on our academics or do you have any sort of base for making assumptions on what universities law firms "respect"?

As a student at the "nobody in the law world" university I can actually say I have never had problems with my applications for those Magic Circle and "picky" American law firms and neither have other colleagues of mine who joined me at schemes or ACs. Neither have those QM graduates who work there or have already secured a TC. Not once have people raised eyebrows when I mentioned my university.

Do I meet many people from Oxford there? Yes. Do I meet less people from other universities? Yes, either Leeds, Cambridge, Exeter, Birmingham, QM, KCL, UCL or LSE, but quite evenly split. Do I feel there is any difference between us? No.

QM attracts some of the best academics, and people know we offer law because it is actually one of the subjects the uni is renowned for. We have tutors joining us from around the world and there are also some practitioners teaching. This might be more the case in London than in other cities because it's less of a cultural shock and because the practitioners work in the city.

Just to sum everything up: do not just regurgitate the same things that you have seen on TSR and that might have been true years ago.

Career prospects are not just "something that happens to you because you graduated X university". They are based on how you use your brain and how you decided to make the most out of your time at university. Therefore, the decision on what university you should pick should be based on whether the university has links with employers that facilitate the process of you getting (legal) work experience or whether you could actually find these opportunities themselves in the city where you live, on testimonials from students who actually study there, on how much you really like the city, on what electives you could choose, etc.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by My House Party
You sound like a conspiracy theorist. Yes, there are some flaws with the university ranking system but all-in-all the majority of people would agree it's a reliable source of information.


"Conspiracy theorist" is a new one. I don't think you quite appreciate that university rankings are not what many applicants take them to be. A university that does relatively badly in the rankings in a subject can be much better regarded by employers than one that beats it substantially. Durham has on numerous occasions been 15th or even lower for law in the past but that has ultimately changed nothing. UEA beating it in the past hasn't meant all the US firms start taking UEA applicants. You see my point?

Original post by My House Party
Obviously universities aim to climb up the league table and if they achieve that, why would that take anything away from their credibility? If we take Exeter as an example, an increasingly prestigious university but what is this down to I hear you ask? They've had huge investment which allows better research in departments (such as Law), subsequently attracting more international students and enhancing student satisfaction/graduate prospects. I go there and bloody love it.


I do not disagree entirely, but my point is that more international students or more points in a particular category does not mean it is a better university for law or more likely to help you get pupillage/a training contract. The rankings create the impression of somewhere being a "better choice", but when you think about it it's not as clear cut as that. Exeter has for years underperformed in the rankings relative to how well it is actually regarded. I wonder how many people don't go there thinking it isn't very good when it actually is.

Original post by My House Party
That's why it's high in the league tables and the same goes for Queen Mary. Why does 'playing the game' take anything away from the university when in the process the department is only getting stronger?
It doesn't if the department is actually getting stronger. I see no evidence that QMUL is. None of the ultra-selective US firms have taken anyone from QMUL that I have heard of yet, magic circle take very few and pupillage at a top set is a rarity (if ever achieved- I don't think I've seen a QMUL grad with a pupillage at a top set yet, though am open to people showing me one). Not the sign of a third ranked law school to me.

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