Athina M Metaxa
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Hi, I've heard that non British students are easier to get into Oxbridge and the other top UK universities.
Is that true and if so, why?
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Octohedral
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I doubt it's true.

What you've heard might be that they have to pay more fees, so the university wants them more, but I think there's a quota for international students at Oxford for undergraduate level (I don't know about Imperial etc), so depending on the number of applicants it's probably harder.

I would have to look up the statistics. Things are complicated by EU being different to non-EU.

At Oxbridge the choice is made by individual admissions tutors after carefully assessing only 30 or so individuals, so the aren't going to pick someone worse because they're an international student. However, they have a good chance if they're good enough. Plenty of my friends are international students, and at postgraduate level the percentage is very high.

Are you non-British? Undergraduate or postgraduate?
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Doones
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Not true.

Non-UK applicants to Cambridge have a 13% success rate compared to overall average of 21% (undergraduate applicant to offer rate)
http://www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergrad...istics2013.pdf

Although check Table 5 - some countries were more succesful, notably Hungary (25%)

Also there's no International "quota", except for medicine which is a NHS imposed limit.
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Athina M Metaxa
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(Original post by Octohedral)
I doubt it's true.

What you've heard might be that they have to pay more fees, so the university wants them more, but I think there's a quota for international students at Oxford for undergraduate level (I don't know about Imperial etc), so depending on the number of applicants it's probably harder.

I would have to look up the statistics. Things are complicated by EU being different to non-EU.

At Oxbridge the choice is made by individual admissions tutors after carefully assessing only 30 or so individuals, so the aren't going to pick someone worse because they're an international student. However, they have a good chance if they're good enough. Plenty of my friends are international students, and at postgraduate level the percentage is very high.

Are you non-British? Undergraduate or postgraduate?
I am not British but I'm from another country of the European Union
I hope to get into Oxbridge in 2 years as an undergraduate
Where are you studying?
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Octohedral
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(Original post by Athina M Metaxa)
I am not British but I'm from another country of the European Union
I hope to get into Oxbridge in 2 years as an undergraduate
Where are you studying?
I'm at Balliol College, Oxford doing maths - I've been here 5 years (undergraduate and masters).

You have a good chance. In my undergraduate class of 6 there was someone from Vietnam and someone from Poland. Don't bother 'playing the statistics' or anything, though - just be the best you can and try to impress the admissions tutors. They want a good student - they don't care where you're from.

2 years is a good amount of time to try to set up a good application. What is your subject?
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vital-phenomena
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(Original post by Octohedral)

2 years is a good amount of time to try to set up a good application. What is your subject?
Jumping in as I'm not British but I would like to study in Oxford as well. Do you know of any international students studying Ancient History (w/ Modern History or Classical Archeology)
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jenkinsear
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
Jumping in as I'm not British but I would like to study in Oxford as well. Do you know of any international students studying Ancient History (w/ Modern History or Classical Archeology)
There are international students studying everything. Oxford isn't some kind of mono-cultural throwback to the 19th century.
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vital-phenomena
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(Original post by jenkinsear)
There are international students studying everything. Oxford isn't some kind of mono-cultural throwback to the 19th century.
Thanks for stating something I already know, however I highly doubt anyone from HK or China had studied Ancient History in Oxford. I was asking Octohedral if he personally know of any int students studying the aforementioned subject.
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jenkinsear
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
Thanks for stating something I already know, however I highly doubt anyone from HK or China had studied Ancient History in Oxford. I was asking Octohedral if he personally know of any int students studying the aforementioned subject.
Someone in the year below me from Hong Kong was doing it.
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vital-phenomena
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(Original post by jenkinsear)
Someone in the year below me from Hong Kong was doing it.
Oh? How odd; the Hong Kong secondary school curriculum only briefly touches upon the greco-roman world, and that's during the first year. It's annoying how we lack any history museums that aren't about China.

Is the person taking it with Modern History or Classical Archaeology?
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jenkinsear
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
Oh? How odd; the Hong Kong secondary school curriculum only briefly touches upon the greco-roman world, and that's during the first year. It's annoying how we lack any history museums that aren't about China.

Is the person taking it with Modern History or Classical Archaeology?
They were doing Classical Archaeology and Ancient History.

I do not know whether they were educated in the UK or Hong Kong, but they were definitely from Hong Kong.

Most UK schools do not offer ancient history in any form- it's rare to find it taught outside of private or grammar schools. Studying it at school is not a requirement. I believe some form of greek/roman project is required at primary school level, but that's of no real value or help at that age.

It's not a surprise you only have museums about China; most countries do not hold extensive collections from abroad. Britain is one of the few exceptions to this because of it previously ruling much of the world and having the funding/interest/capacity for conservation work.
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mishieru07
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
Thanks for stating something I already know, however I highly doubt anyone from HK or China had studied Ancient History in Oxford. I was asking Octohedral if he personally know of any int students studying the aforementioned subject.
If I were you, I'd drop the Oxford University Hong Kong Society an email (http://ouhks.com/contact.php) and ask if there are any HKers studying Ancient History - they're likely to have some sort of member list which would contain subject information. They might also have records of alumni as well.

Given that Ancient History (AMH + CAAH) doesn't exactly have very many students, there's a chance that there isn't a current student from HK though. Not that it matters - from my experience, the tutors aren't concerned with where you come from (outside of medicine, which has a quota). Their key consideration is your aptitude for the course.
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vital-phenomena
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(Original post by jenkinsear)
They were doing Classical Archaeology and Ancient History.

I do not know whether they were educated in the UK or Hong Kong, but they were definitely from Hong Kong.

Most UK schools do not offer ancient history in any form- it's rare to find it taught outside of private or grammar schools. Studying it at school is not a requirement. I believe some form of greek/roman project is required at primary school level, but that's of no real value or help at that age.

It's not a surprise you only have museums about China; most countries do not hold extensive collections from abroad. Britain is one of the few exceptions to this because of it previously ruling much of the world and having the funding/interest/capacity for conservation work.
Yes, but A-Levels offers Classical Civilisation, Archeology, Classics, whereas in HK these are not available as courses but only briefly touched upon. I know there are no mandatory A-Levels to take if one wants to study CAAH at Oxford, but that's definitely the easiest/ most obvious way to show the enthusiasm that they require.

That's why I was saying how rare for someone from China to study Ancient History given all the close to non-existent contact we have to the Western archaic world.
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jenkinsear
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
Yes, but A-Levels offers Classical Civilisation, Archeology, Classics, whereas in HK these are not available as courses but only briefly touched upon.
So so few schools offer those subjects at Alevel. I have never met someone who did Archeology Alevel.
(Original post by vital-phenomena)
I know there are no mandatory A-Levels to take if one wants to study CAAH at Oxford, but that's definitely the easiest/ most obvious way to show the enthusiasm that they require.
The tutors will know that for most people they are not an option. The Oxford admissions process is far more sophisticated than "Oh x took a subject at Alevel which few schools offer.... let's take them"

(Original post by vital-phenomena)
That's why I was saying how rare for someone from China to study Ancient History given all the close to non-existent contact we have to the Western archaic world.
I think you kind of over-estimate how much most British people know about the subject/how much of an opportunity they have to study it.
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vital-phenomena
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(Original post by jenkinsear)
So so few schools offer those subjects at Alevel. I have never met someone who did Archeology Alevel.


The tutors will know that for most people they are not an option. The Oxford admissions process is far more sophisticated than "Oh x took a subject at Alevel which few schools offer.... let's take them"



I think you kind of over-estimate how much most British people know about the subject/how much of an opportunity they have to study it.
1. It's not like a lot of people would choose those subjects for their undergrad as well?

2. Oh, you mean they don't draw the candidates' names out of a hat?
I don't know about the amount of schools offering A Levels, but there's always self study. The CAAH page requires candidates to show enthusiasm, which I said would be easiest shown by, oh I don't know, taking related A-level subjects? How about volunteering at museums, going to digs, reading books outside of course related work? Things to put in the application letter? They are all opportunities that are close to nonexistent in HK and China, thus I said it would be rare for us to be studying subjects that we have such limited contact with.

3. Well, at least you have museums and ways to go to digs in UK and some parts of Europe, unlike being in China.

29% (24 places) was accepted last year for CAAH, which is decently high for Oxford.
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mishieru07
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
1. It's not like a lot of people would choose those subjects for their undergrad as well?

2. Oh, you mean they don't draw the candidates' names out of a hat?
I don't know about the amount of schools offering A Levels, but there's always self study. The CAAH page requires candidates to show enthusiasm, which I said would be easiest shown by, oh I don't know, taking related A-level subjects? How about volunteering at museums, going to digs, reading books outside of course related work? Things to put in the application letter? They are all opportunities that are close to nonexistent in HK and China, thus I said it would be rare for us to be studying subjects that we have such limited contact with.

3. Well, at least you have museums and ways to go to digs in UK and some parts of Europe, unlike being in China.

29% (24 places) was accepted last year for CAAH, which is decently high for Oxford.
1. Not everyone has the opportunity to study their subject at A level. I couldn't study the subject I eventually went on to study because it simply isn't offered in my home country (it is offered in the UK A levels, but not many people appear to choose it at any rate). Unless specific subjects are deemed to be necessary, this is no bar to entry.

2. I can accept that volunteering at museums and going to digs might be very challenging, but surely reading relevant books would not be impossible? Perhaps check out your national library, or go on Amazon/ Ebay/ Taobao and see if you can purchase something 2nd hand. At worst, you'll have to ship the books from the UK. Surely you must have done something which sparked your interest in this subject, given your relative lack of exposure (eg a school project)? Maybe you can extrapolate on that.

3. Tutors are likely to look at things in context. No one's going to blame you for not living in the UK and therefore not having access to many relevant museums. You could also check around and see if there are virtual tours offered by museums: eg the British Museum has some http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/online_tours.aspx It's arguably a poor substitute, but surely you can't be faulted for doing your best.

4. Not sure what the relevance of the acceptance rate is
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jenkinsear
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
1. It's not like a lot of people would choose those subjects for their undergrad as well?
I suspect the majority of people who study such subjects at UK universities have never studied the subjects at school. It is accepted that access to them is limited/non-existent for many students, with Universities taking that into account in not requiring subjects to have been studied previously.

(Original post by vital-phenomena)
2. Oh, you mean they don't draw the candidates' names out of a hat?
I don't know about the amount of schools offering A Levels, but there's always self study. The CAAH page requires candidates to show enthusiasm, which I said would be easiest shown by, oh I don't know, taking related A-level subjects? How about volunteering at museums, going to digs, reading books outside of course related work? Things to put in the application letter? They are all opportunities that are close to nonexistent in HK and China, thus I said it would be rare for us to be studying subjects that we have such limited contact with.
Your attitude is awful. If you turn up with this kind of chip on your shoulder then you will probably be rejected- unteachable candidates or truly unpleasant ones do not tend to be ones the tutors want to make offers to.

Self studying an extra Alevel is not realistic for most applicants, it's also in no way required. Volunteering is a nice way of showing an interest I agree, but why can't you do outside reading in Hong Kong? Are you claiming not to have books?

(Original post by vital-phenomena)
3. Well, at least you have museums and ways to go to digs in UK and some parts of Europe, unlike being in China.
You're showing your naivety. You assume that everyone has the opportunity to go and do these things. How do you think people who don't live anywhere near these museums or digs (i.e. the majority of British people) are expected to go and do that? How are normal people meant to afford the costs associated or find the time in light of their studies/other commitments? It's not simply a case of strolling down the road and finding a massive dig going on...

(Original post by vital-phenomena)
29% (24 places) was accepted last year for CAAH, which is decently high for Oxford.
Yes, and most of them will not have been on a massive dig or spent their life in a museum.
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Octohedral
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
Jumping in as I'm not British but I would like to study in Oxford as well. Do you know of any international students studying Ancient History (w/ Modern History or Classical Archeology)
I don't personally, but that doesn't mean anything - almost all my close friends (by coincidence) aren't in that area. I know plenty of international students casually though, and I'm sure some of them are doing classics / AH. Some good advice would be to:

- Contact one of the university's international / Chinese societies.
- Look at the Oxford thread on here - somewhere there's a list of Oxford students on here and what they study (they volunteered to be on the list, so shouldn't mind being contacted - I'm on it). A classics person can probably help you better than I can as they will know what the demographic of their lectures is
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Okorange
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(Original post by vital-phenomena)
Oh? How odd; the Hong Kong secondary school curriculum only briefly touches upon the greco-roman world, and that's during the first year. It's annoying how we lack any history museums that aren't about China.

Is the person taking it with Modern History or Classical Archaeology?
Is it really that shocking? Hong Kong has limited space, do you really expect them to open a museum on greco-roman history? I certainly don't see a museum of china in New York or anything.
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Athina M Metaxa
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(Original post by Octohedral)
I'm at Balliol College, Oxford doing maths - I've been here 5 years (undergraduate and masters).

You have a good chance. In my undergraduate class of 6 there was someone from Vietnam and someone from Poland. Don't bother 'playing the statistics' or anything, though - just be the best you can and try to impress the admissions tutors. They want a good student - they don't care where you're from.

2 years is a good amount of time to try to set up a good application. What is your subject?
Psychology
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