Close
Choose a topic
Please choose a topic
Please choose a label

Can't see the right topic? Check out the All Forums page

What would you like to say?
Please enter a title
Please enter a message
Thanks for posting! View your post below.
Thanks for posting! We just need to check something in your message and will publish it as soon as we can.
Oops! Something went wrong. Please Try again.
Turn on thread page Beta

How does transgenderism actually exist? How does gender actually exist? watch

Announcements
Start new discussion Reply
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 1
    • 25-02-2015 01:08
    I don't get how it is real. Its something people made up and then for this reason some people will say they're transgender. How Can one know they're the other sex? When they start explaining how they're transgender they start talking about the gender they prefer and why. Well gender is man made isn't it? I mean women weren't made where they were supposed to wear dresses it was a choice many made due to societal pressure. Without it we're either female or male sex. That's something that can not change. I think the reason people feel they're a man inside a woman's body is because society paints a picture of what a man and a woman is and they realize they're not the stereotype and more of the other stereotype. But it's all made up at the end of the day why play the game? And instead accept not everyone is the same?


    i am not trying to be hateful. I have always been more like the opposite sex gender wise but I feel what does it even mean or matter? Just because society says one thing doesn't change that my body will always see it as the sex it was born so i don't get why gender exists a thing we can't see with our eyes more than sex? Something that's actually tangible?
    0
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    • 2
    • 25-02-2015 01:14
    (Original post by Justadude14)
    I don't get how it is real. Its something people made up and then for this reason some people will say they're transgender. How Can one know they're the other sex? When they start explaining how they're transgender they start talking about the gender they prefer and why. Well gender is man made isn't it? I mean women weren't made where they were supposed to wear dresses it was a choice many made due to societal pressure. Without it we're either female or male sex. That's something that can not change. I think the reason people feel they're a man inside a woman's body is because society paints a picture of what a man and a woman is and they realize they're not the stereotype and more of the other stereotype. But it's all made up at the end of the day why play the game? And instead accept not everyone is the same?


    i am not trying to be hateful. I have always been more like the opposite sex gender wise but I feel what does it even mean or matter? Just because society says one thing doesn't change that my body will always see it as the sex it was born so i don't get why gender exists a thing we can't see with our eyes more than sex? Something that's actually tangible?
    Seeing a man walking down the road in a dress is ridiculous and laughable imo, your a man not a woman.
    0
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    • 3
    • 25-02-2015 01:19
    I don't really understand it either. Especially when people claim that gender is a "social construct".

    But as long as they're not hurting anyone. :dontknow:
    0
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 4
    • 25-02-2015 01:26
    (Original post by sultanina9)
    Seeing a man walking down the road in a dress is ridiculous and laughable imo, your a man not a woman.
    Men all over the world wear dresses.
    1
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    • 5
    • 25-02-2015 02:08
    It exists, inasmuch as any metaphysical classification does. Is it a physical manifestation? No, you're either male or female.
    1
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    • 6
    • 25-02-2015 02:15
    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    I don't really understand it either. Especially when people claim that gender is a "social construct".

    But as long as they're not hurting anyone. :dontknow:
    Haha that is ridiculous when you start talking socially constructed. The stuff between the legs (thats what I mean by gender) is not socially constructed... otherwise babies would be.

    My rationalisation is that it's when physical gender doesn't match brain gender. I know a couple of transgender people from my quiz team and I am fine, so fine with that.

    I don't understand why the hand-wavy social construction BS.
    0
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    • 7
    • 25-02-2015 02:22
    if gender is a social construct. Then it stands to reason I should be able to swap my penis for a vagina with the power of my mind.
    0
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 8
    • 25-02-2015 02:33
    (Original post by AntisthenesDogger)
    It exists, inasmuch as any metaphysical classification does. Is it a physical manifestation? No, you're either male or female.
    You can also be intersex but that's not the topic. To me being this way does change my sex though which is why I feel if gender is made up the feeling to be the opposite sex is made up too.
    0
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    • 9
    • 25-02-2015 02:34
    I suppose it is somewhat of a paradox arguing that gender is a social construct but then saying that you are the opposite gender/don't adhere to this social construct. But from experiences with transgender people and various reading, your sex is your genitals and you gender is how you feel. What composes your gender is, as others have mentioned, what is stereotyped to be your gender (i.e. female = feminine attributes, male = masculine attributes). Generally, being biologically female equates with being stereotypically feminine and vice versa. People who are transgender feel as though that their biological sex does not correlate with their sense of gender. A biological male might identify more with the female gender... if that makes sense.

    So yeah, while gender is a social construct, it shouldn't negate the existence of transgenders or the validity of their identity. That's like saying that racism is a social construct and then arguing that racist behaviour/victims of racism aren't "real".
    0
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 10
    • 25-02-2015 02:42
    (Original post by Raiden10)
    Haha that is ridiculous when you start talking socially constructed. The stuff between the legs (thats what I mean by gender) is not socially constructed... otherwise babies would be.

    My rationalisation is that it's when physical gender doesn't match brain gender. I know a couple of transgender people from my quiz team and I am fine, so fine with that.

    I don't understand why the hand-wavy social construction BS.
    I think I personally may be what people call transgender in fact I'm going to a weekly group I go to for people who odentify outside the box. But I just don't feel like it is real. Or what I need to be happy because I don't feel I should live my life by a made up idea of what a woman should be. My body knows what sex I am that's what really matters. I think the root of the problem isn't me. So I don't think I need to change but it's society that needs to change.
    0
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 11
    • 25-02-2015 02:49
    (Original post by laylarose)
    I suppose it is somewhat of a paradox arguing that gender is a social construct but then saying that you are the opposite gender/don't adhere to this social construct. But from experiences with transgender people and various reading, your sex is your genitals and you gender is how you feel. What composes your gender is, as others have mentioned, what is stereotyped to be your gender (i.e. female = feminine attributes, male = masculine attributes). Generally, being biologically female equates with being stereotypically feminine and vice versa. People who are transgender feel as though that their biological sex does not correlate with their sense of gender. A biological male might identify more with the female gender... if that makes sense.

    So yeah, while gender is a social construct, it shouldn't negate the existence of transgenders or the validity of their identity. That's like saying that racism is a social construct and then arguing that racist behaviour/victims of racism aren't "real".
    The thing is the same place that talked about gender being different from sex was the same place and that gender is socially constructed. I don't get where transgenderism comes from if gender is made up. I feel more like then what I'm feeling has to be a product of my society rather just an innate desire. Because I equated male and female with certain things. It wouldn't be far stretched to think I'm the other gender because of the false things connected to being a female and a male. You know.
    0
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 12
    • 25-02-2015 02:54
    (Original post by ChickenMadness)
    if gender is a social construct. Then it stands to reason I should be able to swap my penis for a vagina with the power of my mind.
    Gender isn't at all physical its all made up by society. And basically what the rest of us are told how we should act and live our lives.
    0
    • Community Assistant
    • Very Important Poster
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    Community Assistant
    Very Important Poster
    • 13
    • 25-02-2015 03:03
    Because trans gendered people feel like they're the opposite sex. It doesn't mean that if they're a trans woman, for example, they'll be feminine.
    0
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    • 14
    • 25-02-2015 03:10
    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    I don't really understand it either. Especially when people claim that gender is a "social construct".

    But as long as they're not hurting anyone. :dontknow:
    (Original post by Raiden10)
    Haha that is ridiculous when you start talking socially constructed. The stuff between the legs (thats what I mean by gender) is not socially constructed... otherwise babies would be.
    (Original post by Raiden10)

    My rationalisation is that it's when physical gender doesn't match brain gender. I know a couple of transgender people from my quiz team and I am fine, so fine with that.

    I don't understand why the hand-wavy social construction BS.


    The word gender is a social construct. For example, some cultures may deem a woman's role to take care of families whilst the man works. That is a gender role and is described the way people perceive men and women (i.e. gender).

    Sex is male or female. Gender is the way people see male or female (based on their own perceptions, not scientific/objective facts).
    1
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 15
    • 25-02-2015 03:16
    (Original post by keromedic)
    Because trans gendered people feel like they're the opposite sex. It doesn't mean that if they're a trans woman, for example, they'll be feminine.
    No they don't feel like they're other sex you ask one why they feel they are a man or a woman they say it's because of gender related issues.

    I have sex related reason I feel the way I do but it's actually what enables me to live the way I am because I have certain qualities about my body. It's why I don't have dysmorphia so much because I have a lot in common symptoms with a specific intersex condition.

    But it's why I don't have body dysmorphia as much. That's what body dysmorphia is all about the sex not being the gender we are told we are by society.
    0
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 16
    • 25-02-2015 03:20
    (Original post by vanillapod)

    The word gender is a social construct. For example, some cultures may deem a woman's role to take care of families whilst the man works. That is a gender role and is described the way people perceive men and women (i.e. gender).

    Sex is male or female. Gender is the way people see male or female (based on their own perceptions, not scientific/objective facts).

    Yes exactly...


    Thank you.
    3
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    • 17
    • 25-02-2015 04:00
    (Original post by vanillapod)

    The word gender is a social construct. For example, some cultures may deem a woman's role to take care of families whilst the man works. That is a gender role and is described the way people perceive men and women (i.e. gender).

    Sex is male or female. Gender is the way people see male or female (based on their own perceptions, not scientific/objective facts).
    I know what gender is.

    What I'm more confused about is how you can believe you're the wrong gender yet at the same time say that gender is simply a social construct? To take your example, yes many societies say women should look after kids and the man should work but in the West women can also work so what is deemed appropriate gender roles changes both over time and across different societies. Does that mean that a woman who wants to work in Saudi Arabia is actually transgender because that's what men do? Obviously not. Is a man who wants to stay at home and look after kids in the UK trans? Again, no.

    So if what is expected of each gender changes how can you be the "wrong" gender - if you like wearing dresses that doesn't mean you're female it means that societal expectations do not match you. But in some societies men do wear dresses and no one thinks this is wrong. There's no inherent reason for women to wear dresses or have long hair.


    I don't mean to be offensive, it's just something I never understood.
    1
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    • 18
    • 25-02-2015 04:30
    (Original post by Sabertooth)
    I know what gender is.

    What I'm more confused about is how you can believe you're the wrong gender yet at the same time say that gender is simply a social construct? To take your example, yes many societies say women should look after kids and the man should work but in the West women can also work so what is deemed appropriate gender roles changes both over time and across different societies. Does that mean that a woman who wants to work in Saudi Arabia is actually transgender because that's what men do? Obviously not. Is a man who wants to stay at home and look after kids in the UK trans? Again, no.

    So if what is expected of each gender changes how can you be the "wrong" gender - if you like wearing dresses that doesn't mean you're female it means that societal expectations do not match you. But in some societies men do wear dresses and no one thinks this is wrong. There's no inherent reason for women to wear dresses or have long hair.


    I don't mean to be offensive, it's just something I never understood.
    What you're describing doesn't sound like a typical transgender person at all, more someone who doesn't fit in with arbitrary cultural stereotypes associated with gender. Different transgender people do have different experiences, but one very common thing is what's known as "Gender Dysphoria", where you feel sometimes extreme levels of discomfort at your own body because it's the "wrong" gender. This obviously has a pretty big effect on transgender teenagers going through puberty as their bodies become more and more divergent from their gender. The one thing in common though is that they would want to be a member of the opposite sex in any situation, society, culture, historical period etc - it is not that they don't fit certain social norms, but that they are psychologically a member of a different gender to that assigned at birth. It'd be highly unusual for a transgender man in Saudi Arabia for instance to say "I'd happily live as a woman in the UK because of the way they have greater equality there", since it's much more innate than a rational response to social privilege.
    0
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    • 19
    • 25-02-2015 05:42
    (Original post by Green_Pink)
    What you're describing doesn't sound like a typical transgender person at all, more someone who doesn't fit in with arbitrary cultural stereotypes associated with gender. Different transgender people do have different experiences, but one very common thing is what's known as "Gender Dysphoria", where you feel sometimes extreme levels of discomfort at your own body because it's the "wrong" gender. This obviously has a pretty big effect on transgender teenagers going through puberty as their bodies become more and more divergent from their gender. The one thing in common though is that they would want to be a member of the opposite sex in any situation, society, culture, historical period etc - it is not that they don't fit certain social norms, but that they are psychologically a member of a different gender to that assigned at birth. It'd be highly unusual for a transgender man in Saudi Arabia for instance to say "I'd happily live as a woman in the UK because of the way they have greater equality there", since it's much more innate than a rational response to social privilege.
    Not true gender dysphoria is not essential to be transgender. And what I don't get is how does one know what caused it?
    0
    Offline

    20
    ReputationRep:
    • 20
    • 25-02-2015 05:49
    (Original post by Green_Pink)
    What you're describing doesn't sound like a typical transgender person at all, more someone who doesn't fit in with arbitrary cultural stereotypes associated with gender. Different transgender people do have different experiences, but one very common thing is what's known as "Gender Dysphoria", where you feel sometimes extreme levels of discomfort at your own body because it's the "wrong" gender. This obviously has a pretty big effect on transgender teenagers going through puberty as their bodies become more and more divergent from their gender. The one thing in common though is that they would want to be a member of the opposite sex in any situation, society, culture, historical period etc - it is not that they don't fit certain social norms, but that they are psychologically a member of a different gender to that assigned at birth. It'd be highly unusual for a transgender man in Saudi Arabia for instance to say "I'd happily live as a woman in the UK because of the way they have greater equality there", since it's much more innate than a rational response to social privilege.
    So if a person doesn't fit societal gender stereotypes why say things like "gender is a social construct" and why is it called "transgenderism" if really it's about sex. I've read a lot of the trans threads on TSR and it's always about not fitting their gender rather than their sex (I'm not saying the thing you said about not liking their body isn't true). I don't see how what I described is "arbitrary cultural stereotypes" rather than gender. :confused:
    0
   
 
Today on TSR

Flog a dead horse...

Not anymore!

Sister steals my stuff!

Only OK at Christmas?

Mom calls me ugly and stupid

Is it ok to appropriate black fashion?

Poll
Do you like exams?
UniMatch course search

Find your perfect uni place

Useful resources

Quick links:

Debate and current affairs forum guidelinesUnanswered society threads

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Related
Reply
Latest
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.