Conscience clause law - discrimination of LGBT on grounds of 'morality'?

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Danboat
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http://www.u.tv/News/2015/02/24/Bish...e-clause-32295

A lot of controversy here in NI over this bill. Thoughts?
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crozibear96
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I live in Northern Ireland and I have never been more ashamed to live here. Thank bloody goodness I won't be here come September.
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Prince of Mind
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The story in a nutshell "we are oppressing the religious by not letting them oppress others. This is a real problem because discrimination is a good thing".
Really depressing to see countries moving backwards.
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DiddyDec01
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They can't possibly pass such an appaling law.
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galaxica
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They have a risible morality.
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Falcatas
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(Original post by Prince of Mind)
The story in a nutshell "we are oppressing the religious by not letting them oppress others. This is a real problem because discrimination is a good thing".
Really depressing to see countries moving backwards.

Freedom to choose whom to (and whom not to) associate with is not oppression.
No one has the right to demand service of another people unless they wish to.
This does mean people can discriminate against others on the basis of race, religion, sexuality and belief.


Discrimination is never always a bad thing, as we discriminate all the time in life. (Favouring your friends rather than strangers is a form of discrimination.)

I doubt many would complain if a black man refused to serve a white nationalist . However, everyone (except those who believe in free association) would defend the reverse. Of course, I personally view the former as right and the latter as wrong but I cannot impose restrictions on the white nationalist not matter how horrible his opinions are. I would refuse to associate with himself myself.

The state should not be the judge of what level of discrimination should be allowed. We can refuse to associate with racists and bigots ourselves.
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Mr. Woo
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Abortion and homosexuality = genocide
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Skip_Snip
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(Original post by Mr. Woo)
Abortion and homosexuality = genocide
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning!
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RF_PineMarten
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It's an absolutely shameful proposal, though from what I hear about it it's unpopular and unlikely to pass. But that it even gets proposed in a western democracy in this day and age is disgusting.

I get sick and tired of stupid religious bigots trying to portray themselves as the victims because they are not free to impose their bigotry on others. That's basically what's going on here.

(Original post by Skip_Snip)
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning!
He has none, so don't bother asking.
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thunder_chunky
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Of course this is happening in Northern Ireland. It'll be a while yet before thei attitudes truly start to change.
It seems that discrimination is ok according to some based on their religious beliefs. Religious beliefs is where it stops being bigoted discrimination and becomes something protected and untouchable. It's a shame more people can't see the fault in that.
Sinn Fein are trying to block it which is something. Sinn Fein themselves are still a bunch of *****.

(Original post by Mr. Woo)
Abortion and homosexuality = genocide
(Original post by Skip_Snip)
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning!
If you're waiting for something intelligent, don't hold your breath.
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Danboat
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(Original post by thunder_chunky)
Sinn Fein are trying to block it which is something. Sinn Fein themselves are still a bunch of *****.
I have it pegged as a PR stunt. Old backwards scum will always be old, backwards scum unfortunately.
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Everglow
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I suppose this is only to be expected from a still fundamentally Catholic country. It would be very disappointing to see this pass through though, as it's essentially giving people a free pass to discriminate against LGBT people.

The bishop interviewed in this article said 'Our laws as they stand are having an unjust and disproportionate impact on those of religious faith.' I'm not sure how that can be true in a Catholic country. :rolleyes: I just don't understand how a supposedly 'loving' religion like Christianity can have so many followers who want to actively discriminate against minorities like the LGBT community.
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jakeel1
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We should invade it with Ireland and assimilate it. I know its part of the UK but it's not really is it.
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Danboat
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(Original post by jakeel1)
We should invade it with Ireland and assimilate it. I know its part of the UK but it's not really is it.
I'd rather not have a blasphemy law, aswell.
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thunder_chunky
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(Original post by jakeel1)
We should invade it with Ireland and assimilate it. I know its part of the UK but it's not really is it.
Invade Ireland? Now there's a fresh idea.
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Falcatas
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I suppose one reason to oppose this law is that is unfair law if it does allow more groups to discriminate.

Of course religious people should be able to refuse to serve homosexuals on their own property. However, homosexuals and non religious people must be able to refuse religious people as well.
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RF_PineMarten
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(Original post by Falcatas)
Of course religious people should be able to refuse to serve homosexuals on their own property. However, homosexuals and non religious people must be able to refuse religious people as well.
No they shouldn't. If they run a business they are opening their property up to the public and they should not discriminate. You cannot discriminate against people for certain characteristics - I can't remember all of them off the top of my head, but sexuality and religion are included. If they don't like that then they shouldn't run a business, simple.

We should not legalise discrimination against gay people because of someone's "religious beliefs". We must not pander to stupidity, it only legitimises it and encourages it.
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Falcatas
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(Original post by RFowler)
No they shouldn't. If they run a business they are opening their property up to the public and they should not discriminate. You cannot discriminate against people for certain characteristics - I can't remember all of them off the top of my head, but sexuality and religion are included. If they don't like that then they shouldn't run a business, simple.

We should not legalise discrimination against gay people because of someone's "religious beliefs". We must not pander to stupidity, it only legitimises it and encourages it.
There is nothing special about opening a business. It is still your property so you should be able to choose whomever you wish to sell (or not to sell to).
There is no positive obligation to sell to people just because they are willing customers.

Otherwise you force people against their will to serve people on their own property. We do not need to the state to beat bigotry. People can freely refuse to associate with bigots without state interference.
In fact you put yourself at an economic disadvantage by discrimination of such basis.
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k4l397
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If God was so bothered about homosexuality and thought Catholics should discriminate against them, then surely it would be in the 10 commandments. Don't see how this law is even being proposed.
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DarkMagic
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(Original post by k4l397)
If God was so bothered about homosexuality and thought Catholics should discriminate against them, then surely it would be in the 10 commandments. Don't see how this law is even being proposed.
It's actually the DUP that are proposing this. The DUP are very definitely not Catholic.


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