Feminism and Islamic culture Watch

ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#1
In the UK and Ireland feminism has a good history of fighting back against oppressive practices and mindsets created by and/or endorsed by religion. The catholic church being a good example. But why is it feminists have little to say about the whole women having to wear some kind of head scarf thing if they are a Muslim? I know this is not Saudi Arabia where there is no actual laws in place to say stone a women for daring to take the thing off but a lot of feminist history has been about still fighting battles even when legally they have the same rights as men. Just because you are not facing legal/institutional sexism does not mean sexism doesn't exist, this is what the later waves of feminism were about?

I just don't understand why so many people who normally get all wound up by unjust societal relationships are totally on board with Muslim girls not really having a choice but to wear some kind of head scarf.
0
reply
Protégé
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#2
Report 3 years ago
#2
Because a lot of them choose to wear it, I should think. Of course they shouldn't be forced to wear it.
1
reply
ilem
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#3
Report 3 years ago
#3
(Original post by Protégé)
Because a lot of them choose tonwear it, I should think. Of course they shouldn't be forced to wear it.
Muslim women 'choosing' to wear the headscarf is pretty much equivalent to children 'choosing' to become religious. It's an illusion at best.
3
reply
Protégé
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#4
Report 3 years ago
#4
(Original post by ilem)
Muslim women 'choosing' to wear the headscarf is pretty much equivalent to children 'choosing' to become religious. It's an illusion at best.
No it's not, some actually want to wear it. I wouldn't, but what's so hard to believe about that?
0
reply
username1533709
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#5
Report 3 years ago
#5
(Original post by ilem)
Muslim women 'choosing' to wear the headscarf is pretty much equivalent to children 'choosing' to become religious. It's an illusion at best.


Posted from TSR Mobile

What do you mean by illusion? You sound like you have some sort of hatred/bias against muslims.
8
reply
ilem
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#6
Report 3 years ago
#6
(Original post by Protégé)
No it's not, some actually want to wear it. I wouldn't, but what's so hard to believe about that?
They only want to wear it because it's been instilled in their heads that wearing the scarf is what a proper Muslim woman does by the community they live in. As I said it's hardly different to a child supposedly choosing their religion.

(Original post by Kadak)
Posted from TSR Mobile

What do you mean by illusion? You sound like you have some sort of hatred/bias against muslims.
See above. I have nothing against Muslims personally, I simply dislike backwards cultural norms like women having to cover themselves. It just happens this particular cultural norm has manifested itself in Islam.
1
reply
black_mamba
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#7
Report 3 years ago
#7
Couple of random thoughts:

There are many feminist activists already fighting such issues in Islamic areas.

People are scared to denounce anything if they don't understand the cultural/religious context of it (right or wrongly).

Because it is debateable as to whether individuals have been brainwashed to some extent, or are wearing coverings out of free choice, again it makes it tricky to wade in and outright attack the veil or burqa or whatever.

I used to volunteer with some [secular] Middle Eastern women's rights activists who were very anti women covering themselves. Was refreshing.
0
reply
username1533709
Badges: 5
Rep:
?
#8
Report 3 years ago
#8
(Original post by ilem)
They only want to wear it because it's been instilled in their heads that wearing the scarf is what a proper Muslim woman does by the community they live in. As I said it's hardly different to a child supposedly choosing their religion.



See above. I have nothing against Muslims personally, I simply dislike backwards cultural norms like women having to cover themselves. It just happens this particular cultural norm has manifested itself in Islam.
I know plenty of muslim women who do not wear the hijab.I don't deny that some women are forced/pressured to wear it,but I am personally against it and with time,this will become a thing of the past.

Some people do convert to other religions or become atheist/agnostic,so it is not really an illusion.

But lots of women do wear the hijab because they want to, not because they forced.
0
reply
ilem
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#9
Report 3 years ago
#9
(Original post by Kadak)
I know plenty of muslim women who do not wear the hijab.I don't deny that some women are forced/pressured to wear it,but I am personally against it and with time,this will become a thing of the past.

Some people do convert to other religions or become atheist/agnostic,so it is not really an illusion.

But lots of women do wear the hijab because they want to, not because they forced.
Forcing someone doesn't have to be some obvious, violent act of oppression and control. You can just as easily, and much more subtly, force someone into adopting your beliefs through constant indoctrination from an early age. So they may think that they indeed want to wear the veil or the headscarf; however that does not mean that this choice stems entirely from their own volition since they were very likely strongly influenced by the community they grew up in.

Some of course break away from that but it's more common for people to remain true to their upbringing.
1
reply
Vegito
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#10
Report 3 years ago
#10
Because that's what Islam tells and teaches. It doesn't matters on which place of the world you are, either KSA or UK. Islam is with us everywhere and we have to follow it no matter where we are and what rights does any place has. This is something you can't understand, only a true Muslim will.
1
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#11
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#11
(Original post by Protégé)
Because a lot of them choose to wear it, I should think. Of course they shouldn't be forced to wear it.
In the same way women chose to be housewives in the nuclear family model?



To ad another point. The premise behind the head scarf is to pretext women from the gaze of men and their lusts. Well isn't this similar to victim blaming of saying women shouldn't wear revealing clothing?
2
reply
DanB1991
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#12
Report 3 years ago
#12
IMO opinion it's because feminism quite consciously does not want to be seen as a racist or discriminatory ideology. It's in this aspect it's inherently obvious how flawed feminism is when it comes to cultural neutrality which is an important part of sociology and by extension anthropology.
1
reply
Protégé
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#13
Report 3 years ago
#13
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
In the same way women chose to be housewives in the nuclear family model?

To ad another point. The premise behind the head scarf is to pretext women from the gaze of men and their lusts. Well isn't this similar to victim blaming of saying women shouldn't wear revealing clothing?
Yeah, some actually choose. Although I think most just do it because their parents tell them to.

Not really victim blaming imo. I think that a lot of women wouldn't want to be looked at in such a way. Here's an extreme example, but if someone locks the windows and doors of their home, fearing a robbery, is that victim blaming?
0
reply
silverbolt
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#14
Report 3 years ago
#14
(Original post by Kadak)
Posted from TSR Mobile

What do you mean by illusion? You sound like you have some sort of hatred/bias against muslims.
no its not that (and no he doesnt sound like he has a bias against muslims fyi).

You see no child is born religious they are indoctrinated into it by thier parents/grandparents.

So someone raised in an Islamic household has had thier dress choices "influenced" (to use a polite term) to a degree that though they "choose" the hijab/niqab, that choice is dictated by indoctrination. If it was purely a choice then others outside of Islamic culture would wear it
2
reply
caravaggio2
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#15
Report 3 years ago
#15
(Original post by DanB1991)
IMO opinion it's because feminism quite consciously does not want to be seen as a racist or discriminatory ideology. It's in this aspect it's inherently obvious how flawed feminism is when it comes to cultural neutrality which is an important part of sociology and by extension anthropology.
Mr nail, meet Ms head.
0
reply
anarchism101
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#16
Report 3 years ago
#16
Muslim societies can't have feminism? Tell that that to the YPJ.

Name:  1415.jpg
Views: 1421
Size:  57.4 KB

Name:  2014929264618734_20.jpg
Views: 1198
Size:  47.0 KB

Name:  YPJ-SAVASCI-OTURURKEN.jpg
Views: 2564
Size:  374.5 KB
1
reply
Dima-Blackburn
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#17
Report 3 years ago
#17
There are many Muslim feminists who are challenging the traditional, patriarchal interpretations of Islam. Here's a list of some books by Muslim feminists: https://orbala.wordpress.com/books-on-islamic-feminism/
0
reply
redferry
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#18
Report 3 years ago
#18
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
In the UK and Ireland feminism has a good history of fighting back against oppressive practices and mindsets created by and/or endorsed by religion. The catholic church being a good example. But why is it feminists have little to say about the whole women having to wear some kind of head scarf thing if they are a Muslim? I know this is not Saudi Arabia where there is no actual laws in place to say stone a women for daring to take the thing off but a lot of feminist history has been about still fighting battles even when legally they have the same rights as men. Just because you are not facing legal/institutional sexism does not mean sexism doesn't exist, this is what the later waves of feminism were about?

I just don't understand why so many people who normally get all wound up by unjust societal relationships are totally on board with Muslim girls not really having a choice but to wear some kind of head scarf.
I think a lot of people, myself included, feel it would be both rude an counter productive to tell Muslims how to live their lives.
0
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#19
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#19
(Original post by redferry)
I think a lot of people, myself included, feel it would be both rude an counter productive to tell Muslims how to live their lives.
I know I am entering hyperbole here but that mindset also applies to FGM that is done due for cultural reasons that are normally tied to a religion of some sort.

You could easily make that argument against the meddling and criticisms of Catholic culture and how it treated women. We should all have just kept out of Catholics and their lives.

What happens if mainstream Muslim culture is oppressive to women? Aren't feminists supposed to at least question it? If you look at the bottom of my post there are Muslim feminists that are questioning it from the link Dima provided. Why can't I or any other non Muslim question it?

(Original post by anarchism101)
Muslim societies can't have feminism? Tell that that to the YPJ.





I didn't say they couldn't have feminism. What is the YPJ?

(Original post by Dima-Blackburn)
There are many Muslim feminists who are challenging the traditional, patriarchal interpretations of Islam. Here's a list of some books by Muslim feminists: https://orbala.wordpress.com/books-on-islamic-feminism/
That's interesting thanks
0
reply
redferry
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#20
Report 3 years ago
#20
(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
I know I am entering hyperbole here but that mindset also applies to FGM that is done due for cultural reasons that are normally tied to a religion of some sort.

You could easily make that argument against the meddling and criticisms of Catholic culture and how it treated women. We should all have just kept out of Catholics and their lives.

What happens if mainstream Muslim culture is oppressive to women? Aren't feminists supposed to at least question it?



I didn't say they couldn't have feminism. What is the YPJ?



That's interesting thanks
Except that Catholics, by the time the 'meddling' started were no longer a persecuted minority in this country. The dynamic was totally different.

I'll happily highlight countrywide practice in Muslim dominated countries as wrong but targeting Muslims in this country is just putting pressure on an already marginalised group, and criticism is,if anything likely to drive them further away from western values not bring them closer.

Way I see it is let's be honest the practice's generally die put naturally through the generations. Muslims born here are far less likely to wear the hijab.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do you give blood?

Yes (46)
9.24%
I used to but I don't now (14)
2.81%
No, but I want to start (177)
35.54%
No, I am unable to (117)
23.49%
No, I chose not to (144)
28.92%

Watched Threads

View All