"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" The best position? Watch

SBKA
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#1
I've encountered quite a lot of intellectual snobbery on TSR. No one particular group is more guilty than another, they all do it. Atheists, Muslims, Christians, etc. I myself have been guilty of it at times.

Surely due to the fact that we simply do not know, the best position to take is the one that is stated in the title. Any attempt to assert otherwise just seems rather pointless.
0
reply
NotJustAName
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#2
Report 3 years ago
#2
If I know I know nothing, then I must know something.
1
reply
SBKA
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#3
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#3
(Original post by NotJustAName)
If I know I know nothing, then I must know something.
That makes my head hurt
0
reply
jakeel1
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#4
Report 3 years ago
#4
I Know nothing. Not even this.
0
reply
Nogoodsorgods
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#5
Report 3 years ago
#5
You need to read some books or do something!

You're guilty of the highest form of pseudo-intellectualism (or intellectually / socially being scared) in claiming that 'we simply do not know'.

We simply do not know what? Whether or not there is a God or afterlife? Yes.

But we know a lot of other things. Tell me something you don't know and I'll try to tell you what is known about it, Descartian doubt not withstanding.
0
reply
SBKA
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#6
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#6
(Original post by Nogoodsorgods)
You need to read some books or do something!

You're guilty of the highest form of pseudo-intellectualism (or intellectually / socially being scared) in claiming that 'we simply do not know'.

We simply do not know what? Whether or not there is a God or afterlife? Yes.

But we know a lot of other things. Tell me something you don't know and I'll try to tell you what is known about it, Descartian doubt not withstanding.
This was mainly in reference to questions about the nature of the universe/God. It can also be applied to other questions regarding morals and ethics. In my philosophy class, when talking about the problem of evil, no less than 10 people asserted that there is too much evil in the world. This is an pointless assertion to make. We do not even know how to define the concept of evil yet alone identify how much of it is in the world.

I do take your point that there are things that we can seem to know through empirical means, but this type of knowledge is no where near the level of knowledge about the universe or God. Although not my own position, one could also claim that all empirical knowledge we appear to know could be ultimately fallible.
0
reply
The Epicurean
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#7
Report 3 years ago
#7
(Original post by SBKA)
I've encountered quite a lot of intellectual snobbery on TSR. No one particular group is more guilty than another, they all do it. Atheists, Muslims, Christians, etc. I myself have been guilty of it at times.

Surely due to the fact that we simply do not know, the best position to take is the one that is stated in the title. Any attempt to assert otherwise just seems rather pointless.
Most atheists are Agnostic Atheists. The best way to sum up my belief for instance is that I believe it is possible that a God could exist, but that I believe the existence of God to be improbable. For instance, it is possible that the Queen could be a member of TSR, but highly improbable. It is not theoretically impossible that the Queen could be a member of TSR, but it would be reasonable to assume that she isn't, would you not agree?

Though we can not know something for certain, we can at least hypothesise about how likely an event is. So I would say that true wisdom comes in acknowledging that theoretically there are infinite possibilities (many of them unintuitive), and realising that despite the possibilities being infinite, not all possibilities are equally probable.

From my personal experience, many theists on TSR tend to claim that God exists for certain and that they know 100% their religion is correct. Most atheists on TSR however seem to veer more towards agnostic atheism and when asked to delve further into their beliefs, will admit that they are not 100% certain. That is why I would say that I believe atheism tends to be a less intellectually snobbish position to hold.
0
reply
SBKA
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#8
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#8
(Original post by The Epicurean)
Most atheists are Agnostic Atheists. The best way to sum up my belief for instance is that I believe it is possible that a God could exist, but that I believe the existence of God to be improbable. For instance, it is possible that the Queen could be a member of TSR, but highly improbable. It is not theoretically impossible that the Queen could be a member of TSR, but it would be reasonable to assume that she isn't, would you not agree?

Though we can not know something for certain, we can at least hypothesise about how likely an event is. So I would say that true wisdom comes in acknowledging that theoretically there are infinite possibilities (many of them unintuitive), and realising that despite the possibilities being infinite, not all possibilities are equally probable.

From my personal experience, many theists on TSR tend to claim that God exists for certain and that they know 100% their religion is correct. Most atheists on TSR however seem to veer more towards agnostic atheism and when asked to delve further into their beliefs, will admit that they are not 100% certain. That is why I would say that I believe atheism tends to be a less intellectually snobbish position to hold.
I agree with most of what you have said.

I can understand the use of hypothesising for science, but for the average layman and the society as a whole is it more helpful to lean towards agnostic atheism? Or would it be better to maintain a complete state of neutrality when questioning the nature of the universe?

Do you only live your life on principles and ideas that are provable? Is this even possible?

I agree with you that it is mostly religious believers that are more persistent in asserting that their way is the right way, although I have come across posts from people who claim that they know for sure that God does not exist, when we know that this is impossible.

Sorry for all the questions, you seem more knowledgeable on the subject than me .
0
reply
The Epicurean
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#9
Report 3 years ago
#9
(Original post by SBKA)
I agree with most of what you have said.

I can understand the use of hypothesising for science, but for the average layman and the society as a whole is it more helpful to lean towards agnostic atheism? Or would it be better to maintain a complete state of neutrality when questioning the nature of the universe?
I think the difficulty of discussing such concepts is that in order to discuss theism, it is essential that we first tackle what or who this God is. Are all God claims equal? Would a person in a complete state of neutrality regard Thor as equally credible to the God of Christianity or the God of Deism? I don't believe it is possible to be completely neutral with regards to all God claims as some are far more credible than others surely? Even a theist is technically an atheist in the fact that they reject all theistic God claims that are not their own God.

(Original post by SBKA)
Do you only live your life on principles and ideas that are provable? Is this even possible?
Most certainly not. I don't believe that is what agnostic atheism is about. Whilst many atheists of the 20th century were logical positivists, I don't think many atheists continue to hold such a stance. Logical positivism is an inherently faulty and self-refuting philosophy and is best avoided.

Most agnostic atheists would agree that it is possible and maybe even quite likely, that there exists intelligent sentient lifeforms elsewhere in our universe. However, as of yet, such a stance is not provable. Say there does exist one other intelligent sentient life form in our universe. To find that single other lifeform, we would have to search the whole Universe, and it could possibly be that we find them on the last planet we search in the Universe. Until we have searched every planet, there is always a chance that intelligence sentient alien life could exist on a planet we have not yet searched. But to search every single planet in the Universe just to find this one other intelligent, sentient lifeform, would be impossible. But I believe it would be illogical to merely dismiss the possible existence of this intelligent, sentient lifeform just because it is impossible to prove.

(Original post by SBKA)
I agree with you that it is mostly religious believers that are more persistent in asserting that their way is the right way, although I have come across posts from people who claim that they know for sure that God does not exist, when we know that this is impossible.

Sorry for all the questions, you seem more knowledgeable on the subject than me .
I have seen some atheists on TSR claim outright that they know for certain that God does not exist and it is something that I find frustrating. I think gnostic atheism is just as inherently illogical as gnostic theism.

I don't know what the subject we are discussing is per se, but I am not knowledgeable whatever the subject may be
1
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Brexit: Given the chance now, would you vote leave or remain?

Remain (866)
80.11%
Leave (215)
19.89%

Watched Threads

View All