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Israel’s Lieberman calls for beheading of Arab Israelis

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Reply 20
Original post by Rat_Bag
But you're taking what he said "OUT OF CONTEXT"


The dude is a complete scumbag though, and the majority of Israelis despise him and his ****ty little party.

The problem is democracy, and the fact they have extremely weak governments, so often they have to coalition with these loons, or the ultra religious loons to form a functional government. (who demand less separation between religion and state, which is not what most israelis want)

And obviously, the more terrorism and the more anti semitism, the more support his party gets.

Netanyhu himself has called this guy an embarrassment.
Original post by felamaslen
No , radical Islam is to support what the Palestinians support: Islamic terrorists.

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This is so bad....can't you even be a good troll?......you think Palestinian women and children who regularly get killed by either the Israeli army or Hamas support Islamic terrorists? Are you living under a rock man?

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Original post by small_circles
This is so bad....can't you even be a good troll?......you think Palestinian women and children who regularly get killed by either the Israeli army or Hamas support Islamic terrorists? Are you living under a rock man?

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What do you call the result of the 2006 Gaza elections then?
Original post by felamaslen
What do you call the result of the 2006 Gaza elections then?


Sorry, so you think the elections are a sign of what the people actually want?...you actually believe that there is a genuine democratic state?...hmmmm

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Original post by small_circles
Sorry, so you think the elections are a sign of what the people actually want?...you actually believe that there is a genuine democratic state?...hmmmm

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I very much doubt that Hamas would have been able to seize power if it didn't enjoy widespread popular support.

And then there is the issue of opinion polls, which show that majorities (or at least large minorities) in countries like Palestine support things such as stoning for adultery, death for apostasy, etc.
Reply 25
Original post by felamaslen
No , radical Islam is to support what the Palestinians support: Islamic terrorists.

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It's very narrow to believe ''Palestinians'' all support Islamic terrorists, and it's very, very narrow (and ignorant) to assume Palestinians are all Islamists, which of course would be necessary for them to be were they part of ''radical Islam'' as you assert.

Lots of Palestinians are Jews, Christians, secularists, not all are Muslims, not all are Arab, not all are extreme, not all support Hamas, not all support Islamic terrorists and even if a significant percentage do it doesn't excuse their treatment at the hands of the illegal occupiers.

If I were a Palestinian, living under the conditions they do, I'd be angry enough to go to ''extreme'' lengths to oppose the regime that oppresses me.

If you lived without adequate provisions, medical care, water, food rationing, no constant electricity, no running hot water, no citizenship, no right of self-determination, no passport, little money, under constant threat of bombs in a region being run by an outside power who hates you and your only form of government was a violent tyrannical sham government made up of terrorists who majorly misrepresent your religion and your beliefs I'd imagine you'd be pretty browned off, too.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 26
Original post by felamaslen
I very much doubt that Hamas would have been able to seize power if it didn't enjoy widespread popular support.

And then there is the issue of opinion polls, which show that majorities (or at least large minorities) in countries like Palestine support things such as stoning for adultery, death for apostasy, etc.


Do you think that in Stalin's Russia there would be a high percentage of people who supported his practices and his government? I'd imagine there would be, but that doesn't mean the statistics are accurate. Such people live under duress.

I could hate comrade Stalin, but I'd still have had to say I loved him under his rule.

As for seizing power, do you think America seized proxy-power over Iraq's predominantly Shia population by popular support when they installed a Sunni dictator who misrepresented and misunderstood his population? Of course they didn't. They armed him and he forced his way.

The seizure of power does not require popular support from the population.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Petey7
It's very narrow to believe ''Palestinians'' all support Islamic terrorists, and it's very, very narrow (and ignorant) to assume Palestinians are all Islamists, which of course would be necessary for them to be were they part of ''radical Islam'' as you assert.

Lots of Palestinians are Jews, Christians, secularists, not all are Muslims, not all are Arab, not all are extreme, not all support Hamas, not all support Islamic terrorists and even if a significant percentage do it doesn't excuse their treatment at the hands of the illegal occupiers.

If I were a Palestinian, living under the conditions they do, I'd be angry enough to go to ''extreme'' lengths to oppose the regime that oppresses me.

If you lived without adequate provisions, medical care, water, food rationing, no constant electricity, no running hot water, no citizenship, no right of self-determination, no passport, little money, under constant threat of bombs in a region being run by an outside power who hates you and your only form of government was a violent tyrannical sham government made up of terrorists who majorly misrepresent your religion and your beliefs I'd imagine you'd be pretty browned off, too.


Obviously I don't mean to say that they all support the people they elect, but a majority probably do.

Anyway the Palestinian territories have always been "occupied" (by Egypt and Jordan before Israel; by the British before then; by the Ottomans before then). The reason they don't have a state is because they have refused one on multiple occasions; they don't like Israel existing.

I'd be pretty "browned off" with the fact that my fellow countrymen have been resisting the only liberal democracy in the region since 1948, yes.
Original post by Petey7
Do you think that in Stalin's Russia there would be a high percentage of people who supported his practices and his government? I'd imagine there would be, but that doesn't mean the statistics are accurate. Such people live under duress.

I could hate comrade Stalin, but I'd still have had to say I loved him under his rule.

As for seizing power, do you think America seized proxy-power over Iraq's predominantly Shia population by popular support when they installed a Sunni dictator who misrepresented and misunderstood his population? Of course they didn't. They armed him and he forced his way.

The seizure of power does not require popular support from the population.


But Stalin was never elected on any kind of ballot (was he?). Hamas were elected to govern the Gaza strip! You are right though that the 2006 Gaza elections were almost certainly not free, and those who supported Hamas probably no longer support them now (if they have any brain cells, that is), since all they've given them is three wars with Israel and a totalitarian society.

I think you got Shia and Sunni the wrong way round, but whatever. I don't see what Iraq has to do with this, and by the way, Nouri Al-Maliki was elected too, was he not? I'm not claiming Iraq is a free country though (far from it).
Original post by felamaslen
But Stalin was never elected on any kind of ballot (was he?). Hamas were elected to govern the Gaza strip! You are right though that the 2006 Gaza elections were almost certainly not free, and those who supported Hamas probably no longer support them now (if they have any brain cells, that is), since all they've given them is three wars with Israel and a totalitarian society.

I think you got Shia and Sunni the wrong way round, but whatever. I don't see what Iraq has to do with this, and by the way, Nouri Al-Maliki was elected too, was he not? I'm not claiming Iraq is a free country though (far from it).


Why should they accept living in a blockaded ghetto on a strip of land they were forced into? Is Israel the same liberal democracy that fires shells onto beaches and snipes at children from the rooftops?


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Original post by Midlander
Why should they accept living in a blockaded ghetto on a strip of land they were forced into? Is Israel the same liberal democracy that fires shells onto beaches and snipes at children from the rooftops?


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I'm pretty sure the beach shelling was debunked a while ago, but anyway even if Israel has committed some war crimes (which it undoubtedly has on some occasions), doesn't mean it is not a liberal democracy. The UK has committed some terrible war crimes such as the firebombing of Dresden. Still, if you're a German in 1944 and you want to fight the UK, you are my enemy, just as if you are a Palestinian who wants to fight Israel you are also my enemy.

The reason Gaza is blockaded - by both Israel and Egypt - is because it is a jihadist state. Who's fault is that? Palestinians, for electing an Islamofascist group to power who want to destroy anyone who doesn't conform to their dystopian ideology.
Original post by felamaslen
I'm pretty sure the beach shelling was debunked a while ago, but anyway even if Israel has committed some war crimes (which it undoubtedly has on some occasions), doesn't mean it is not a liberal democracy. The UK has committed some terrible war crimes such as the firebombing of Dresden. Still, if you're a German in 1944 and you want to fight the UK, you are my enemy, just as if you are a Palestinian who wants to fight Israel you are also my enemy.

The reason Gaza is blockaded - by both Israel and Egypt - is because it is a jihadist state. Who's fault is that? Palestinians, for electing an Islamofascist group to power who want to destroy anyone who doesn't conform to their dystopian ideology.


I don't recall Mark Regev debunking it when he was pressed on it on live TV but if you can show otherwise I will listen. Note I also didn't argue that Israel was an undemocratic state-but that it is a state which has committed, and is committing, heinous crimes in Palestine. The Palestinians who were ejected by Israelites in the '40s had done nothing to deserve being evicted from their land.

The citizens of Palestine live in appalling conditions on the scraps of land left in the Gaza strip and in the West Bank, which Israel illegally builds settlements in. Israel has oppressed these people for decades and in my mind they have absolutely every right to fight back against the ones responsible. I note that Western hypocrisy doesn't call for any blockade of 'Islamofascist' Saudi Arabia which flogs people for blogging, but agrees with one of Palestine which is fighting against the nation the West helped to establish.

They said the same of Hezbollah when they pushed Israel out of Lebanon and I wish Hamas all the best in getting them out of Palestine.
Original post by Midlander
I don't recall Mark Regev debunking it when he was pressed on it on live TV but if you can show otherwise I will listen. Note I also didn't argue that Israel was an undemocratic state-but that it is a state which has committed, and is committing, heinous crimes in Palestine. The Palestinians who were ejected by Israelites in the '40s had done nothing to deserve being evicted from their land.

The citizens of Palestine live in appalling conditions on the scraps of land left in the Gaza strip and in the West Bank, which Israel illegally builds settlements in. Israel has oppressed these people for decades and in my mind they have absolutely every right to fight back against the ones responsible. I note that Western hypocrisy doesn't call for any blockade of 'Islamofascist' Saudi Arabia which flogs people for blogging, but agrees with one of Palestine which is fighting against the nation the West helped to establish.

They said the same of Hezbollah when they pushed Israel out of Lebanon and I wish Hamas all the best in getting them out of Palestine.


I would call for a blockade or invasion of Saudi Arabia if it were possible; it is a disgusting state and I feel ashamed that the UK lowered flags in support of its revolting dictator. So count me out of that particular "Western hypocrisy".

If "fighting back" for you means "killing random civilians", then fine, but you are my enemy if you support that.

What you say is patently false anyway, since the UN offered the Palestinians a state in 1947, and Israel offered them a state on a few occasions since. And where was Arafat when Jordan was the one in charge of the West Bank, with Egypt "occupying" the Gaza strip also? Notice how the outrage is only felt against Israel, when in reality Israel is the country with the very best human rights record by far in the entire middle eastern region, especially with respect to the Palestinians.
Original post by felamaslen
I would call for a blockade or invasion of Saudi Arabia if it were possible; it is a disgusting state and I feel ashamed that the UK lowered flags in support of its revolting dictator. So count me out of that particular "Western hypocrisy".

If "fighting back" for you means "killing random civilians", then fine, but you are my enemy if you support that.

What you say is patently false anyway, since the UN offered the Palestinians a state in 1947, and Israel offered them a state on a few occasions since. And where was Arafat when Jordan was the one in charge of the West Bank, with Egypt "occupying" the Gaza strip also? Notice how the outrage is only felt against Israel, when in reality Israel is the country with the very best human rights record by far in the entire middle eastern region, especially with respect to the Palestinians.


Does Hamas have the technology available for specific targeting of military personnel and buildings? Does it have the capability to use it from behind the barbed wire? Israel openly snipes at children, shells schools, prevents supplies of concrete getting in for the Palestinians to rebuild what the 'Defence' Force destroyed. I'd find your comment that they have the best human rights record in treating Palestine funny if it weren't such a dire situation there.

Israel is the aggressor in this conflict, it always has been. To criticise Hamas for doing things no different to how the Israelis do it is very odd indeed. I am pleased you at least see Saudi for what it is though. People focus more heavily on Israel because it was a state created by the West and it is a symbol of its hypocrisy in how it treats the Middle East. Doesn't mean they are in favour of the other tyrants and extremists elsewhere mind.
Original post by Midlander
Does Hamas have the technology available for specific targeting of military personnel and buildings? Does it have the capability to use it from behind the barbed wire? Israel openly snipes at children, shells schools, prevents supplies of concrete getting in for the Palestinians to rebuild what the 'Defence' Force destroyed. I'd find your comment that they have the best human rights record in treating Palestine funny if it weren't such a dire situation there.

Israel is the aggressor in this conflict, it always has been. To criticise Hamas for doing things no different to how the Israelis do it is very odd indeed. I am pleased you at least see Saudi for what it is though. People focus more heavily on Israel because it was a state created by the West and it is a symbol of its hypocrisy in how it treats the Middle East. Doesn't mean they are in favour of the other tyrants and extremists elsewhere mind.


This is objectively false

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#Arabs
Original post by yo radical one
This is objectively false

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#Arabs


You have read the rest of that, right?
Original post by Midlander
You have read the rest of that, right?


Yes, what's your point?
Original post by yo radical one
This is objectively false

Arab leaders and governments rejected the plan of partition in the resolution and indicated that they would reject any other plan of partition...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine#Arabs


What does this have to dowith the previous comment?

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Original post by yo radical one
Yes, what's your point?


You have read the reason for the Arabs rejecting the proposals and quotes from Harry Truman among others talking about massive pressure from the Zionist lobby?


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