Orange Order Walks Protests.

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william walker
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#1
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#1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31780386



News from Ulster if anyone cares in Britain. Quis Separabit.
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DaveSmith99
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The sooner these ridiculous, antagonistic parades die a death the better.
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william walker
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#3
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#3
(Original post by DaveSmith99)
The sooner these ridiculous, antagonistic parades die a death the better.
Not better for the Loyalists though is it. What you are really saying is you want Loyalism to die a death.
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gladders
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Or he could be saying he'd rather people co-exist peacefully rather than deliberately riling people up.
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william walker
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#5
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(Original post by gladders)
Or he could be saying he'd rather people co-exist peacefully rather than deliberately riling people up.
What like stopping them from walking down a road they have walked down for centuries because of threats of Republicans violence? It works both ways, this has deliberately riling up the Loyalists who only want to walk down a road playing music once a year.
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DaveSmith99
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(Original post by william walker)
Not better for the Loyalists though is it. What you are really saying is you want Loyalism to die a death.
I don't think either side should be engaging in blatantly and deliberately antagonistic marches, though this is more of a problem on the loyalist side yes.
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gladders
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(Original post by william walker)
What like stopping them from walking down a road they have walked down for centuries because of threats of Republicans violence? It works both ways, this has deliberately riling up the Loyalists who only want to walk down a road playing music once a year.
It's inflammatory, and oftentimes is deliberate. They can carry on with their parade, but don't go through Catholic majority areas and be surprised if you invoke a hostile response. Which is why routes are diverted to help make both communities happy.
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william walker
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(Original post by DaveSmith99)
I don't think either side should be engaging in blatantly and deliberately antagonistic marches, though this is more of a problem on the loyalist side yes.
So it is directed at the Loyalists then, rather than the Republicans. The Orange Order would be doing its walks even if everybody supported them. It isn't blatantly and deliberately antagonistic marches, it is simply the Orange Order doing what it does. The Republicans don't like it, it is their problem. Not the Loyalist problem.
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DaveSmith99
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#9
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(Original post by william walker)
So it is directed at the Loyalists then, rather than the Republicans. The Orange Order would be doing its walks even if everybody supported them. It isn't blatantly and deliberately antagonistic marches, it is simply the Orange Order doing what it does. The Republicans don't like it, it is their problem. Not the Loyalist problem.
Both sides. Both. Both means the loyalists and the republicans. Not one or the other. Both.
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william walker
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#10
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(Original post by gladders)
It's inflammatory, and oftentimes is deliberate. They can carry on with their parade, but don't go through Catholic majority areas and be surprised if you invoke a hostile response. Which is why routes are diverted to help make both communities happy.
Well it is obvious that one communities happiness will come at the expense of the other. It seems to the Loyalists who have given up most of their power in Ulster that the British government is pushing against them and supporting the Republicans.

It is one day a year of the 12 when they walk for Battle of the Boyne and the Relief of Derry. That is all the Loyalists want, two days in the year they are free to walk where they like. The rest of the year fine, but the British government can't even give them that.
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l'insegnante
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(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Both sides. Both. Both means the nationalists and the republicans. Not one or the other. Both.
Nationalists and republicans fall into the same category......
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william walker
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(Original post by DaveSmith99)
Both sides. Both. Both means the nationalists and the republicans. Not one or the other. Both.
But you said at the end that it is mainly the Loyalists who do these marches.
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william walker
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#13
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(Original post by l'insegnante)
Nationalists and republicans fall into the same category......
Well no they don't. Nationalists are Irish nationalists who want an Irish state and equality for Catholics in Ulster. Republicans want a 32 county united Ireland and all Protestant power removed. Nationalists are decent people who I can debate with. Republicans are Puritans.
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DaveSmith99
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#14
(Original post by william walker)
But you said at the end that it is mainly the Loyalists who do these marches.
It is, yes.

(Original post by l'insegnante)
Nationalists and republicans fall into the same category......
You're right, slip of the tounge.
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gladders
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#15
[QUOTE=william walker;54232303]Well it is obvious that one communities happiness will come at the expense of the other. It seems to the Loyalists who have given up most of their power in Ulster that the British government is pushing against them and supporting the Republicans.[quote]

Wah wah wah, it's not unfair in my favour.

It is one day a year of the 12 when they walk for Battle of the Boyne and the Relief of Derry. That is all the Loyalists want, two days in the year they are free to walk where they like. The rest of the year fine, but the British government can't even give them that.
Look, it's quite clear there's a way both sides can resolve this - you can have that day - just don't go into particular areas and look for trouble. Change the route.

If you think that's giving away too much, than I don't know what else can be done.
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l'insegnante
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(Original post by william walker)
Well no they don't. Nationalists are Irish nationalists who want an Irish state and equality for Catholics in Ulster. Republicans want a 32 county united Ireland and all Protestant power removed. Nationalists are decent people who I can debate with. Republicans are Puritans.
I'm aware there is a difference. However for the sake of what the person said, they are the same catergory, neither NI want to be part of the UK
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william walker
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#17
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(Original post by l'insegnante)
I'm aware there is a difference. However for the sake of what the person said, they are the same catergory, neither NI want to be part of the UK
Nationalists don't mind being part of the UK so long as there is an Irish state and they have equality within the law. There was an Irish civil war fought between the nationalists and the republicans, with the British supporting the nationalists. So they are different.
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william walker
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#18
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#18
(Original post by gladders)
Wah wah wah, it's not unfair in my favour.

Look, it's quite clear there's a way both sides can resolve this - you can have that day - just don't go into particular areas and look for trouble. Change the route.

If you think that's giving away too much, than I don't know what else can be done.
Don't be childish, this is why I don't like to you.

Or the Loyalists walk down the Queens highway as they have done for centuries on the 12th of July and that is it. The difference is the Loyalists have given up their arms and threats of violence, the Republicans haven't. So the Loyalists would need heavy security, however they could accept it. Now however they simply can't accept it.

You don't know the history of Ulster and the position of power the Loyalists had, they have given as much as they can. Now it is up to the Republicans to show they can accept the Loyalists in Ulster.
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gladders
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(Original post by william walker)
Or the Loyalists walk down the Queens highway as they have done for centuries on the 12th of July and that is it.
'No surrender', as always, then? No wonder the violence continues. If you can't concede even a tiny concession as that...

The difference is the Loyalists have given up their arms and threats of violence, the Republicans haven't. So the Loyalists would need heavy security, however they could accept it. Now however they simply can't accept it.
Codswallop. The IRA has been subject to decommissioning inspections and has disarmed enormously. I hesitate to say entirely as there remain cranks and you can't prove a negative, but what you say is completely false. The same goes for the Loyalists.

You don't know the history of Ulster and the position of power the Loyalists had, they have given as much as they can.
I know more than you as I have listened to the Catholic side, too. The Loyalists have conceded much of their earlier position of privilege which is to be commended, but they didn't deserve that position of privilege in the first place.

Now it is up to the Republicans to show they can accept the Loyalists in Ulster.
Quite, and I like to think it's working, bar disagreements. But it would be ruinous to undo all that's been achieved over stupid bickering over a marching route. Just change the route and bloody let it go.
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Quady
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#20
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#20
(Original post by william walker)
it is simply the Orange Order doing what it does.

The Republicans don't like it, it is their problem. Not the Loyalist problem.
Yes it is.

What about those who are neither loyalist nor republican?
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