B764 - Sale of Meat and Animal Products Bill 2015 Watch

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Birchington
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Sale of Meat and Animal Products Bill 2015, Hon. Rotating Phasor

Sale of Meat and Animal Products Bill 2015
An act to reduce our negative environmental impact on the world which is partly fuelled by animal agriculture and production of meat.

BE IT ENACTED IN ACCORDANCE with the provisions of the Parliament Acts 1911 and 1949, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

1: Tax Laws:

1. Definitions:
1.1 VAT is defined as value added tax.
1.2 Animal products will be defined as any product that is harvested from an animal as a result of killing it.

2. Tax Changes:
2.1 There will be a reintroduction of VAT that will have to be paid by businesses if 2.2 applies and 2.4 doesn’t and with the amount dependent on 2.3.
2.2 The VAT rate will only be applicable to meat and animal products.
2.3 The VAT rate will be set at 15% with a rate of 10% applying to any business with revenue under £150,000
2.4 No VAT will be applied to items that come from fish or insects.

2: Fines and Penalties:

1. Any business found to violate 2.1 will be required to pay a fine of up to 50% of its revenue.

3: Commencement, Short Title and Extent:

1. This Act may be cited as the Sale of Meat and Animal Products Act 2015
2. This Act shall extend to the British Republic; and
3. shall come into force one month after the bill has passed.
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Aph
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Maybe slightly convoluted but in general Aye.
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Saracen's Fez
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Aye, a good idea to recognise the environmental cost of meat without being too punitive.

I'd also like to see VAT reintroduced to other products that are harmful or should be consumed in moderation.
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Jean-Luc Picard
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Aye, I like this :yy:
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username1524603
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I cannot support a bill that imposes VAT on meat products inevitably driving up their price, harming the worst off in society the most. Additionally meat is inelastic meaning its demand will not fall by much but instead people will dedicate larger proportions of their budget to buying meat, at the expense of consuming fewer non-meat goods. Overall the industries which will be hit the most are not the meat producing ones but industries like cinemas, bowling alleys, or restaurants as people will cut their spending on those areas in favour of consuming the same amount of meat.
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Aph
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(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
I cannot support a bill that imposes VAT on meat products inevitably driving up their price, harming the worst off in society the most. Additionally meat is inelastic meaning its demand will not fall by much but instead people will dedicate larger proportions of their budget to buying meat, at the expense of consuming fewer non-meat goods. Overall the industries which will be hit the most are not the meat producing ones but industries like cinemas, bowling alleys, or restaurants as people will cut their spending on those areas in favour of consuming the same amount of meat.
Nigel I have no idea what you're on about, if sausages are too expensive I buy less baggers I don't buy the same amount of sausages just to not go to cinema.
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TeeEff
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(Original post by Aph)
Nigel I have no idea what you're on about, if sausages are too expensive I buy less baggers I don't buy the same amount of sausages just to not go to cinema.
Meat is known to be price inelastic in terms of demand in general, though there can be differing levels of elasticity within the group due to the broad definition.
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username1524603
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(Original post by Aph)
Nigel I have no idea what you're on about, if sausages are too expensive I buy less baggers I don't buy the same amount of sausages just to not go to cinema.
Elasticity of demand governs how much quantity demanded will be reduced if the price increases by 1%. If something is inelastic the decrease in demand will be very little compared to the increase in price, for example, an increase in the price of illegal drugs will have little affect on the demand for the drugs since people are addicted and will buy them anyway. As meat is a large part of peoples' diet, an increase in its price will not result in a noticeable decrease in consumption.

In the example you give with sausages, people will either substitute away from sausages towards burgers, or people will choose to buy a cheaper brand of sausage. It is rare people choose to cut out sausages altogether without replacing them with a meat alternative. The only goods where an increase in price has a noticeable impact on their demand are luxury goods; which sausages are not.
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Wellzi
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Increasing meat taxes because of carbon emissions? I find myself holding back from just directly insulting people. Just ludicrous
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Aph
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(Original post by The Financier)
Meat is known to be price inelastic in terms of demand in general, though there can be differing levels of elasticity within the group due to the broad definition.
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
Elasticity of demand governs how much quantity demanded will be reduced if the price increases by 1%. If something is inelastic the decrease in demand will be very little compared to the increase in price, for example, an increase in the price of illegal drugs will have little affect on the demand for the drugs since people are addicted and will buy them anyway. As meat is a large part of people's diet, an increase in its price will not result in a noticeable decrease in consumption.

In the example you give with sausages, people will either substitute away from sausages towards burgers, or people will choose to buy a cheaper brand of sausage. It is rare people choose to cut out sausages altogether without replacing them with a meat alternative. The only goods where an increase in price has a noticeable impact on their demand are luxury goods; which sausages are not.
I still don't fully understand why people wouldn't eat less meat but I guess I'll just have to accept it.
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Wellzi
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(Original post by Aph)
I still don't fully understand why people wouldn't eat less meat but I guess I'll just have to accept it.
Meat is a staple of the British/European diet and always has been. People won't just stop eating it because it's more expensive. Just like binge drinkers and most smokers don't give up their habit because it's more expensive. It just doesn't work like that
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Rakas21
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I like the idea of encouraging veg over meat for a number of years but given relatively inelastic demand and just how small the British food market is as a portion of the world I'm not entirely convinced that less meat production will occur.

I'll probably abstain.
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The_Mighty_Bush
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I don't agree with the idea behind this but even if you like the idea fines of up to 50% of revenue are absolutely insane and would bankrupt companies overnight.
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Chlorophile
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(Original post by Aph)
I still don't fully understand why people wouldn't eat less meat but I guess I'll just have to accept it.
He does raise a point. I completely agree with the sentiment behind this bill but it is possible that this bill will not achieve what it aims to achieve.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by Wellzi)
Increasing meat taxes because of carbon emissions? I find myself holding back from just directly insulting people. Just ludicrous
Thanks for your valuable input.
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Aph
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(Original post by Chlorophile)
He does raise a point. I completely agree with the sentiment behind this bill but it is possible that this bill will not achieve what it aims to achieve.
Well is there any way you could suggest to improve it?
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BHboM
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(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
I cannot support a bill that imposes VAT on meat products inevitably driving up their price, harming the worst off in society the most....

That does, of course, depend on how you define society. Bearing in mind that we're all animals, with the only difference being that the human variety likes to enslave, abuse and industrially slaughter the nonhuman varieties, I for one include nonhuman animals in the definition of society. The nonhuman animals we've chosen to domesticate and use to our own end deserve at the very least an inclusion in our population.

As such, your statement becomes wholly untrue. The nonhuman animals we degrade and upon whose burned flesh we feast are the worst off in our society and driving up the price we put on their bodies will do the opposite of harming them.
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username456717
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no.
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Chlorophile
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(Original post by Aph)
Well is there any way you could suggest to improve it?
People prefer gaining things than losing things so rather than taxing meat products, maybe it might be a better idea to give tax cuts on more environmentally sustainable alternatives? In theory, I'd completely agree with an extra tax on meat - it'd essentially be no different from a normal carbon tax - but if it is true that people will just end up spending more (and obviously, the poor would be disproportionately affected) then maybe it is more practical to go for a tax-break route?
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Aph
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(Original post by Chlorophile)
People prefer gaining things than losing things so rather than taxing meat products, maybe it might be a better idea to give tax cuts on more environmentally sustainable alternatives? In theory, I'd completely agree with an extra tax on meat - it'd essentially be no different from a normal carbon tax - but if it is true that people will just end up spending more (and obviously, the poor would be disproportionately affected) then maybe it is more practical to go for a tax-break route?
That is a very good suggestion, but aren't most foods tax free already? At least that was my understanding.
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