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    Scenario:

    Two A-Level students have exactly the same grades (AAA) in exactly the same subjects, and are applying to do exactly the same degree course at Oxford University.

    Tarquin lives in an upper-class area in Buckinghamshire. He attended Eton and enjoys playing classical music with his school chums. He has relatives who have all studied at Oxford.

    Jimmy lives on a council estate in Newcastle. He attended the local comprehensive school and enjoys playing drum 'n bass on his decks. None of his relatives have studied at any University let alone Oxford.

    Tarquin is given an unconditional offer whereas Jimmy is rejected immediately.

    Why was Tarquin accepted but not Jimmy?

    Is this a true story?

    Because i thought it would have been the other way around, because jimmy obviously has a higher intelligence as he has performed very well without the nurturing that Tarquin received.

    Jimmy is a convicted rapist?

    Yes this is a true story which was on the news awhile back but the names have been changed. In the real story 'Jimmy' went on to study at Harvard in the states who accepted him unconditionally after being rejected a place at Oxford.

    No Jimmy isn't/wasn't a convicted rapist.

    Because Tarquin is a cooler name than Jimmy.
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    Tarquin had a better interview? they saw more potential in him?stuff like common sense is a valuable asset (someone is now bound to say that jimmy showed more because he had less advantages, but you don't actually know that)

    I mean, I don't know the answer here but that is what happened. Even politicians attacked Oxford by accusing them of maintaining the 'old boy' network and rejecting applicants from lower-class backgrounds. But I don't know why they rejected him.

    I remember Bristol had something where there was a straight A student from Privat school and he got rejected and he got the highest marks in some AS papers over the whole country.

    So i guess it works both ways.

    Well, I'm a Rob, come from a middle-class residential area, attend the local overcrowded 70's mass produced concrete monstrosity called a comprehensive school, dislike (and can't tell the difference between pieces of) classical music, parents went to low-offer universities in the south-west and neither of them finished the second year.

    I got an offer of AAA to read Physics at Univ. Sorry, you may have "a" scenario there but not "the" scenario.

    Tarquin was better looking.

    Originally posted by Unregistered
    Tarquin was better looking.
    It's all about the hairstyle.

    im an 18 year old ethnic minority, neither of my parents stayed on after "o" levels, with neither of them gaining very many passes. this is because they immigrated from abroad when they were in their 20's and have little education. in my entire family, only my uncle and sister have attended university. i go to the local grammar school, am a hip hop and rap enthusiast who works part time in the local DIY store shovelling **** into bins and carrying cement bags. both parents are manual workers.

    oh yea, and i got an AAB offer to read law at Merton college, Oxford, the oldest and one of the most prestigous oxford colleges where every1 else seemed to be from public school or one of the top grammar schools in the country. just goes to show that your social position/situation does not always have to hold you back.

    Originally posted by Unregistered
    im an 18 year old ethnic minority
    ur white then?
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    i am of british origin, come from a middle-upper class background (although class boundaries are vaguely indistinguishable nowadays, thankfully, i believe that that is what i would be labelled as), and go to a private school. the only point that seems to be in my flavour is that i am female. this is because universities are being forced to accept students from less well-off, and from ethnic minority backgrounds, and female and mature students, with a higher priority given to these qualities than to grades. it seems like positive discrimination to me, and could be viewed as being almost as bad as other forms of discrimination.
    xx
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    I think quite a lot goes on the interview. Tarquin would probably have benefitted from the school's experience at what Oxford was looking for, practice interviews etc. He might also have had more impressive extra-curricular activities that convinced the interviewers that he had plenty of time whilst managing the A levels. Or he might have won some contest or competition at national or international level in the subject. In the interview he might have shown himself to be far above A level standards.

    While Jimmy might not have had the assistance of the school, he could have applied to Sutton Trust summer schools (if it was offered to him) or some similar scheme. They might just have felt that he did not make the most of the experiences offered to him. Or he might not have come over well at interview. Jane from a council estate in Birmingham might have performed better in her interview for example.

    In additional Jimmy's predicted grades may have been lower than Tarquin's even though they later went on the achieve the same. Jimmy may have been scraping the As whilst Tarquin found them easy.

    If it's the story I'm thinking of, Jimmy may have been applying to do medicine. Maybe they felt that he did not have the right personality to become a doctor...

    As people have said, it's a situation not a general one - and a rare situation at that.
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    I am me, and i don't care either way. Oxford is not any good at all. It relies on a outdated reputation, while other uni's move with the times, and are alot better.

    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Scenario:

    Two A-Level students have exactly the same grades (AAA) in exactly the same subjects, and are applying to do exactly the same degree course at Oxford University.

    Tarquin lives in an upper-class area in Buckinghamshire. He attended Eton and enjoys playing classical music with his school chums. He has relatives who have all studied at Oxford.

    Jimmy lives on a council estate in Newcastle. He attended the local comprehensive school and enjoys playing drum 'n bass on his decks. None of his relatives have studied at any University let alone Oxford.

    Tarquin is given an unconditional offer whereas Jimmy is rejected immediately.

    Why was Tarquin accepted but not Jimmy?
    Is it Laura Spence who you are talking about? If so then I think you have given a rather inaccurate picture. Firstly, she was from a middle class background not a council estate (not quite so disadvantaged and therefore maybe expected to perform better at interview than she did). Secondly, she applied to do medicine, a course so popular that nobody could take the offer of an Oxford place for granted unless they were predicted five As, were from an ethnic minority background and had attended a sutton trust summer school! Her Achilles heel I suspect was a desire to go to Oxford rather than a commitment to medicine, which was subsequently shown up when she chose to do biochemistry at Harvard, rather than going to one of the many excellent medical schools such as newcastle which are more highly rated than Oxford in the league tables. Don't get me wrong, I think it's appalling that so many Oxbridge students tend to come from upper middle class backgrounds, but the kind of blatant discrimination that you are suggesting isn't the cause, I don't think. I think Oxford does really want to take in the brightest students, whatever their background, but the trouble is that upper middle class students have had soooo many advantages, that they can't help but appear better! It is very hard for Oxford to know if they should offer a place to some inarticulate lad whose only extra curricular activity has been hanging around on street corners getting drunk and smoking weed, who shows no sign of the much desired "passion" for his subject and "love of learning", whose reading extends little beyond the Sun and GCSE english set texts, whose school considers him to be an undiscovered genius, but they haven't had another pupil get to Oxford for twenty years, and who happens to be predicted 3 As, despite having less than amazing GCSE results. It's so much "safer" to choose Tarquin who can be relied upon never to let the side down!
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    (Original post by Iluvatar)
    Oxford is not any good at all. It relies on a outdated reputation, while other uni's move with the times, and are alot better.
    I wouldn't say that was very fair- perhaps Oxford's reputation is greater than it's acheivements (?!) and it's certainly true that other universities are better for certain subjects- however even if there are many universities better than it it would still be inaccurate to say 'Oxford is not any good at all'! It has gained it's reputation through a history of ongoing high acheivement which has not suddenly evaporated! Education on a whole has improved- so it is perhaps not as distingueshed academically as it used to be but it's expectations and grades- as far as I know- are still very good!

    As for the original statements- aswell as the possibilities of differing interviews/courses etc it may also have been dependent on the other universities that the two applied for. I am not sure whether now universities are told which others are been applied to- but certainly they were for the past few years...Some universities discriminate against candidates that apply for 'rival' (?) universities- eg if you apply to both Oxford and Cambridge you will not be accepted at either etc (there are other universities that do this too- I think Bristol might?)...

    Anyway- just some ideas

    Egan
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    aaahh..don't do that kinda mind boggling question thing...ur making me think while i'm not in school...my brain is off limits until labor day

    CR
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    (Original post by Unregistered)
    Yes this is a true story which was on the news awhile back but the names have been changed. In the real story 'Jimmy' went on to study at Harvard in the states who accepted him unconditionally after being rejected a place at Oxford.

    No Jimmy isn't/wasn't a convicted rapist.
    This is the story about Laura Spence. She was rejected from Oxford but went to Havard. I doubt she would appreciate being called Jimmy.
 
 
 
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