How come Tarquin can get into Oxford but Jimmy can't?

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Unregistered
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Unregistered)
Maybe your parents did work really hard to get where they are now, so what? It doesnt mean youve had a hard life!

The point is though going to private school gives people a heave up the ladder. If it didnt your business minded parents wouldnt have spent thousands of their hard earned shekels on your and your bros education, now would they?
why don't you get a scholarship to a private school then?

b x
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#62
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#62
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
Someone failed their eleven plus and so is against more intelligent normal people having a better education
Someone passed their eleven plus with flying colours but opted for Comp. regardless.
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Unregistered)
why don't you get a scholarship to a private school then?

b x
It's too expensive - even with a scholarship! Durr!
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#64
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#64
(Original post by lou p lou)
Tarquin had a better interview?
I think thats what its all about. There are so many people getting AAA nowadays, and only so many places so they have to base acceptance on interview skills. And unfortunately, someone from a better-off background may give a better impression by dress, accent, manner of speech etc. It's unfortunate but true.
e.g. "'ello! I'm 'ere for me interview!"
"Good Afternoon. I'm here for my interview."
which do you find more impressive?

(PS I apologise in advance for stereotyping! I appreciate that not all less better off people talk, dress or act offensively!)
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Leekey
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Unregistered)

(PS I apologise in advance for stereotyping! I appreciate that not all less better off people talk, dress or act offensively!)

**Ponders how to dress offensively?**
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Unregistered
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#66
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#66
(Original post by Leekey)
**Ponders how to dress offensively?**
LOL

(Anyway, I hope that was meant to be an intended joke. )

^^^ Twas' intended as a joke ^^^ - Leekey
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Lucy
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#67
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#67
I'm in the sixth form of an independant school (all girls) and my school offers a certain number of places upon entrance to the sixth form. When I joined sixth form I wasn't surprised to see that majority of the girls offered places were from state or grammar schools.

The truth is that those girls had to work extremely hard to get their A*s. That isn't to say that the students already at my school didn't work as hard but they didn't have to in essence. Majority of the girls could probably afford tutors if they wanted to and, to be blunt, the calibre of teaching is undeniably high. That said I met a girl from a state school who had a tutor for every single GCSE subject.

As for the 'confidence' issue, don't fret if you suddenly feel you have a low self-esteem when you're surrounded by upper-class prudes (sorry for the stereotype). The 'confident' girls in my school were soon biting their tongues when they realised how fast the 'state' girls can pick up the pace of 'independent' study.

I guess I'm trying to say prejudice works both ways. I believe the Spence scenario to be an unfair situation to see as discrimination because she wanted to go to Oxford more than she wanted to become a doctor.
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Adhsur
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#68
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#68
(Original post by Unregistered)
It's too expensive - even with a scholarship! Durr!
I don't have to pay anything for going to my private school.
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Lucy
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Adhsur)
I don't have to pay anything for going to my private school.
you will find that many independant schools (and oxbridge) are quite accomodating to the financial needs of those less advantaged once they are accepted. However of course there are many less places for those who need bursaries and scholarships than those who can pay for themselves.
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#70
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#70
(Original post by tagzt)

i think private schooled applicants have a certain "arrogance" that helps them at oxbridge...and i mean that as a compliment. they seem to be far more confident than state school pupils (maybe because they have received the best education or are wealthy or the whole prestige of oxbridge does not intimidate them) and this would help them cope with the pressure at interview. im not an interviewer so i don't know exactly how it works but from my experience i think this is true.
I know what you mean, but give the interviewers some credit - they can usually tell confident bluster from actual ability/analysis/whatever. I went to my Oxford interviews having never met a private school person, and was somewhat scared by their confidence. However, the outcome of the interviews did not suggest that the arrogant people were in any way favoured by this process - it may have scared them less, but they weren't any more likely than us state school peeps to get in
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emom100
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#71
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#71
i think it depends on which college you have an interview for. My spanish interviewer at sommerville did his best to put me at ease and the interview was very fair there was no way anyone could have prepared for it. He even asked me about how long my teachers had been teaching, whether i had acess to a native speaker and how long i had been learning the language. He also strongly made the point that he wouldn't directly compare someone that had been to spain every year and had been learning the language from 5 with someone like me that just started in the 9th year. This gave me confidence as we were being assesed as individuals and our backgrounds and schooling were being taken into account and not counted against us. My second interview was also very fair and for those 2 I don't think private school people had any particular advantage. However, there was a boy from Eton there and i would bet a fortune that he won a place.(incidently he was a pretentious knob and I heard him go on about how prince harry didn't deserve to go to a school like eton cos he wasn't 100% focused on his studies blah blah blah)
no matter how fair a system is i still think tradition counts at oxbridge and i'll bet the schools like Eton and Harrow have an extremely high sucess rate.

I also had a portuguese interview that wasn't college based cos it was a minority subject. I think this interview undid all the images I had about the fairness and friendlyness of the sommervile interviews. I was made to feel like a total egit.

As soon as i walked in i was asked have you read a certain obscure poem, when I said I hadn't he got in strop and said "none of the other candidates have either, it;s a national disgrace it was my favorite poem when I was young" The interviewer got really arsy with me becasue i didn't have "concrete" plans to attend a costly language course in portugal during the summer, bearing in mind the interview was in november i think this was a bit ott .I would have loved to turn round and say sorry I can't afford it cos your uni doesn't let me work in term time so even if by some miracle i did get in i need this summer to work and save some cash. At the end i asked if he could reccomend a good portuguese verb table cos i was struggling to find one where I live and his response was "you live near bournemouth loads of portuguese people live there why don't go go and ask one of them" well nearly 9 months down the line and funnily enough I still havn't met a portuguese person to ask about a decent verb table. I don't necessarily think a private schooling would have helped prepare me for this type of interview I think the interviewer had just had a personality bypass and was crap with dealing with people especially 17 year olds.

However, overall i loved my interview experience and i would apply the same if given the chanve. Overall, oxford came across as a university that was trying to widen access and make the whole process as fair to state school pupil as possible. There were quite a few people applying that had been on summer schools etc when i met one of them at another open day she had an offer. Remember loads of state school people get in each year and totally deserve their places (as do most of the private school students) It's just unfortunate that a few dragons still exist within the university (like in any workplace) that can undermine the overall good intentions of the uni.
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loftx
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#72
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#72
(Original post by Unregistered)
I know what you mean, but give the interviewers some credit - they can usually tell confident bluster from actual ability/analysis/whatever. I went to my Oxford interviews having never met a private school person, and was somewhat scared by their confidence. However, the outcome of the interviews did not suggest that the arrogant people were in any way favoured by this process - it may have scared them less, but they weren't any more likely than us state school peeps to get in
I had a simliar experiance in my interview - even got a little booklet advising me about how to prepare for the interview and how nice the interviewers were.
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tagzt
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#73
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#73
(Original post by Unregistered)
I know what you mean, but give the interviewers some credit - they can usually tell confident bluster from actual ability/analysis/whatever. I went to my Oxford interviews having never met a private school person, and was somewhat scared by their confidence. However, the outcome of the interviews did not suggest that the arrogant people were in any way favoured by this process - it may have scared them less, but they weren't any more likely than us state school peeps to get in
im sure the interviewers can but look at it this way. i went into my interview having had one mock interview with my history teacher (which was nothing like the real thing). one of the private school applicants had gone to another neighbouring private school to have an interview with someone they had never met before who had been to oxbridge.

now i still got an offer but i think i came very close to messing it all up because i had such little confidence...thankfully i think i did very well on the test and im sure that is what got me the offer. the private school applicant also got an offer but he had to sit a second written test (i didn't) and he thought his interviews were brilliant.

wot im saying is that if you are really low on confidence (which most average state school applicants are) then even if you are really intelligent you can clam up and not come across at all well. personally i think that this is proved by the fact that the ratio of applicants per place from the private sector is a lot better than the same ratio for the state sector...but that's just an opinion.
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Lucy
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#74
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(Original post by tagzt)
personally i think that this is proved by the fact that the ratio of applicants per place from the private sector is a lot better than the same ratio for the state sector...but that's just an opinion.
Not true at Oxbridge:

Percentage of acceptances at Cambridge (2001-02)
Maintained - 47
Independent - 41

Percentage of acceptances at Oxford (2001)
Maintained - 49
Independent - 41

Percentage of acceptances at Oxford (2000)
Maintained - 48
Independent - 43

I'm not implying that oxbridge are more partial towards state/grammar schools (I personally think that state school students at the same level academically as private school students are more prepared - in the sense that they had to work for it). But for example there's King's college at Cambridge which we are told to steer clear from if we're from an independent school.

To be honest, I think confidence really depends on what type of person you are. Sure, which school you may go to could be a contributing factor but it mostly rests on how you personally feel about yourself.
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loftx
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#75
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#75
(Original post by tagzt)
i went into my interview having had one mock interview with my history teacher (which was nothing like the real thing).
I only had one mock interview with my Economics teacher and he asked me loads of hard stuff like what books I had read, why I wanted to do the course and what I wanted to do afterwards. My actual interview was much easier - they asked questions about the subject which I could actually answer

I was a bit scared juat before I got in but the interviewers were really nice and made me feel comfortable.
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It'sPhil...
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#76
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#76
(Original post by Lucy)
Not true at Oxbridge:

Percentage of acceptances at Oxford (2001)
Maintained - 49
Independent - 41

etc...
Yes but if you compare this with the stats about applications you see that a higher proportion of independant sschool pupils are accepted relative to the number applied. in 2001 oxford, from their prospectus, 36% of independant applications were accepted compared to only 30% state - this stat could be seen to imply oxford favour independant school pupils.
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#77
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#77
(Original post by Unregistered)
I know what you mean, but give the interviewers some credit - they can usually tell confident bluster from actual ability/analysis/whatever. I went to my Oxford interviews having never met a private school person, and was somewhat scared by their confidence. However, the outcome of the interviews did not suggest that the arrogant people were in any way favoured by this process - it may have scared them less, but they weren't any more likely than us state school peeps to get in
Thats not actually correct. The figures show that ppl from private schools are more likely to get in! So the the interviewers are possibly taken in by their confidence, although I dont think it is their intention to be.
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#78
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#78
no matter how fair a system is i still think tradition counts at oxbridge and i'll bet the schools like Eton and Harrow have an extremely high sucess rate.

Hmm, wouldnt be so sure. I'm an Oxofrd student and I've heard that Oxford often gets deeply arsey with those from the really posh public schools- by this I mean Eton, Winchester etc rather then say St Pauls which seems to have a different type of im
. In my experience most students are from either minor independents or good state schoools...
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#79
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#79
(Original post by The Dude)
It's all to do with preventing the lower classes from getting Oxbridge places! These are the types of under-hand techniques they use to lower the number of 'commoners' coming into Oxbridge uni's by scaring them off! They know that they have to accept lower-class applicants because the government tells them to, so they have to revert to these sinister under-hand techniques. I bet they don't do this sort of thing when intervieing public/private school applicants.

Fuk 'em! Go to a more modern university, it would probably make you a better adjusted person anyway than if you went to Oxbridge. I'm going to be applying 2004, so I've got time to decide which Uni is best for me (and i'm sure it won't be Oxbridge).
****wit.
Its attitudes like yours that discourage people who dont see themselves as the Oxbridge type from applying.
It is clear that you have no idea what you're talking about- for example, the government has encouraged oxford to take more state applicants- nothing about interviews.
The state/independent distinction is a bit counter productive though because very few students from poorer backgrounds apply or attend (i know I'm one of them!) and most of the state schools represented are very good ones- which doesnt really expand the social base much.
This is all wasted on you though.
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Egan1
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#80
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#80
(Original post by Unregistered)
the government has encouraged oxford to take more state applicants- nothing about interviews.
Indeed, however unfair it is, doesn't the government give universities more money for taking on state school pupils or something...
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