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Atheists banned from getting married in Oklahoma
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Pickles
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#1
Oklahoma are banning atheists from getting married. The bill was agreed in the Oklahoma state house last week, it will now go to the state Senate for consideration.
What do you think about this?
What do you think about this?
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Aj12
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#2
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#2
Is this going to be another one of those idiotic laws that achieves nothing but grandstanding for a few months, before being struck down by the supreme court?
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jakeel1
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I am still wondering why politics is based on the whims of idiots instead of sound social science.
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simon_g
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by simon_g)
any link to a somehow credible source?
any link to a somehow credible source?
http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/17/oklaho...rried-5107328/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10110507.html
Nevertheless it doesn't seem to be true.
The is the Bill
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf...125%20ENGR.PDF
Pages 8-10 relate.
The Bills seems merely abolish marriages licences and on to this an anti-gay marriage provision has been added.
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Everglow
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#6
It's not a direct ban on atheists getting married, so to say - but rather it's a ban on civil marriages. Atheists will have to marry in a religious cerimony if they want to get married.
This will probably just get struck down by a higher court like the Supreme Court in the near future. Anti-gay marriage provisions will too.
This will probably just get struck down by a higher court like the Supreme Court in the near future. Anti-gay marriage provisions will too.
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nulli tertius
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Reluire)
It's not a direct ban on atheists getting married, so to say - but rather it's a ban on civil marriages. Atheists will have to marry in a religious cerimony if they want to get married.
It's not a direct ban on atheists getting married, so to say - but rather it's a ban on civil marriages. Atheists will have to marry in a religious cerimony if they want to get married.
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Everglow
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#8
(Original post by nulli tertius)
If you read the Bill it does not contain a ban on civil marriages.
If you read the Bill it does not contain a ban on civil marriages.
'... marriages must be contracted by a formal ceremony performedor solemnized in the presence of at least two adult, competent persons as witnesses, by a judge or retired judge of any court in this state, or an ordained or authorized preacher or minister of the Gospel, priest or other ecclesiastical dignitary of any denomination who has been duly ordained or authorized by the church to which he or she belongs to preach the Gospel, or a rabbi and who is at least eighteen (18) years of age.'
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User1824259
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nulli tertius
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Reluire)
I had to read this over several times but have now realised the wording is slightly ambiguous. What I think it is essentially saying is that marriages must be conducted in the presence of at least two, competent adults and must be performed by a judge/retired judge or an authorised preacher or minister of the Gospel etc. So Oklahoma is in fact making it very difficult for secular marriages to take place because the only alternative to a religious ceremony is one conducted by a judge or retired judge, and I doubt many of them take place.
I had to read this over several times but have now realised the wording is slightly ambiguous. What I think it is essentially saying is that marriages must be conducted in the presence of at least two, competent adults and must be performed by a judge/retired judge or an authorised preacher or minister of the Gospel etc. So Oklahoma is in fact making it very difficult for secular marriages to take place because the only alternative to a religious ceremony is one conducted by a judge or retired judge, and I doubt many of them take place.
At present civil marriages in Oklahoma are performed by judges or retired judges. Nothing is changing there, In addition common law marriages are recognised in Oklahoma where there is no celebrant and again that is preserved in the new legislation.
This legislation is doing away with marriage licenses, as a way of trying to stop gay marriage. Instead of the state issuing marriage licences to both straight and gay couples, each clergyman or judge decides whether gay marriage is lawful or not. I assume it is argued that there are no lawful common law gay marriages. It punishes a clergyman or judge who wrongfully performs a marriage and an official who wrongfully records a common law marriage.
The effect of the legislation is to place a very high burden on individuals. Clearly the idea or hope is that no or few people will be willing to perform gay marriages.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/okmarriage.asp
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username1533709
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#11
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#11
(Original post by jakeel1)
I am still wondering why politics is based on the whims of idiots instead of sound social science.
I am still wondering why politics is based on the whims of idiots instead of sound social science.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Social science is not scientific. There are ate only three sciences and they are physics, chemistry and Biology.The rest use the scientific method,but they aren't sciences.Homeopathy also uses the scientific method,but it isn't a science.
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thunder_chunky
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#12
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#12
(Original post by jakeel1)
I am still wondering why politics is based on the whims of idiots instead of sound social science.
I am still wondering why politics is based on the whims of idiots instead of sound social science.
(Original post by Reluire)
This will probably just get struck down by a higher court like the Supreme Court in the near future. Anti-gay marriage provisions will too.
This will probably just get struck down by a higher court like the Supreme Court in the near future. Anti-gay marriage provisions will too.
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jakeel1
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#13
(Original post by Kadak)
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Social science is not scientific. There are ate only three sciences and they are physics, chemistry and Biology.The rest use the scientific method,but they aren't sciences.Homeopathy also uses the scientific method,but it isn't a science.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Social science is not scientific. There are ate only three sciences and they are physics, chemistry and Biology.The rest use the scientific method,but they aren't sciences.Homeopathy also uses the scientific method,but it isn't a science.
Biology isn't a science either if you go with the only hard sciences are science nonsense. Society has causes, they can be investigated objectively, whether the conclusions are or not is irrelevant. I think its no coincidence that most scientists are also social democrats, it has something to do with looking at the evidence.
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username1533709
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#14
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#14
(Original post by jakeel1)
Blah blah blah
Biology isn't a science either if you go with the only hard sciences are science nonsense. Society has causes, they can be investigated objectively, whether the conclusions are or not is irrelevant. I think its no coincidence that most scientists are also social democrats, it has something to do with looking at the evidence.
Blah blah blah
Biology isn't a science either if you go with the only hard sciences are science nonsense. Society has causes, they can be investigated objectively, whether the conclusions are or not is irrelevant. I think its no coincidence that most scientists are also social democrats, it has something to do with looking at the evidence.
I doubt you met most of the world's scientists to make that generalisation.
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username1533709
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#15
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#15
(Original post by jakeel1)
Blah blah blah
Biology isn't a science either if you go with the only hard sciences are science nonsense. Society has causes, they can be investigated objectively, whether the conclusions are or not is irrelevant. I think its no coincidence that most scientists are also social democrats, it has something to do with looking at the evidence.
Blah blah blah
Biology isn't a science either if you go with the only hard sciences are science nonsense. Society has causes, they can be investigated objectively, whether the conclusions are or not is irrelevant. I think its no coincidence that most scientists are also social democrats, it has something to do with looking at the evidence.
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Of course Biology is a science.You do have a brain and a heart right? Or is biology wrong on that? Social science theories may not be right,on the other hand.
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ChaoticButterfly
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#16
Christianity. The religion of tolerance.
I'm gonna open my own humanist church, no religious people aloud
I'm gonna open my own humanist church, no religious people aloud
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ChaoticButterfly
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#17
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#17
(Original post by Reluire)
It's not a direct ban on atheists getting married, so to say - but rather it's a ban on civil marriages. Atheists will have to marry in a religious cerimony if they want to get married.
It's not a direct ban on atheists getting married, so to say - but rather it's a ban on civil marriages. Atheists will have to marry in a religious cerimony if they want to get married.
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there's too much love
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#18
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#18
(Original post by Kadak)
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Social science is not scientific. There are ate only three sciences and they are physics, chemistry and Biology.The rest use the scientific method,but they aren't sciences.Homeopathy also uses the scientific method,but it isn't a science.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Social science is not scientific. There are ate only three sciences and they are physics, chemistry and Biology.The rest use the scientific method,but they aren't sciences.Homeopathy also uses the scientific method,but it isn't a science.
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BefuddledPenguin
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#19
This is unconstitutional surely? America has a godless constitution, passing this bill is a deviation of a legislatively secular state.
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username1533709
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#20
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#20
(Original post by there's too much love)
Do you think all mathematics is tautology?
Do you think all mathematics is tautology?
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Maths is very accurate,but science uses empirical evidence while maths uses the proof.Maths isn't a science,but it is as Gauss said the "Queen of sciences".
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