The Student Room Group

English or Modern Languages

I'm very torn between applying for english or modern languages. Is studying the latter really just like doing english but in a foreign language, because you're reading literature? Also any advice on whether to do both my a level languages or replace one of them would be seriously appreciated.
Reply 1
xazy
I'm very torn between applying for english or modern languages. Is studying the latter really just like doing english but in a foreign language, because you're reading literature? Also any advice on whether to do both my a level languages or replace one of them would be seriously appreciated.

A friend of mine had exactly the same dilemma, she wanted to German and English - and that's why she's applying to Oxford now she can do joint honours. Have you considered applying to oxford or is it specifically cambridge you want to go to?
Reply 2
xazy
I'm very torn between applying for english or modern languages. Is studying the latter really just like doing english but in a foreign language, because you're reading literature? Also any advice on whether to do both my a level languages or replace one of them would be seriously appreciated.


It really depends on what's more important to you. At the risk of a flaming I'd say Modern Languages was the more useful subject - both for self-actualisation and for employment prospects - but they aren't vastly similar subject. English as much as it focuses on the language itself and its structure and history also spends a great deal of time on textual analysis and forms of interpretation ( structuralism, postmodernism, feminisim, marxist etc ) which you may like - it's not a crime - but personally was what turned me off the subject. Languages focus more on the former of the two as well as, obviously, increasing your aptitude for communicating in the language(s) you choose to study. While of course a lot of proper texts are used in the course of study they tend to be approached more from a comprehension point of view as well as with a view to learning more about the history and culture of the people the language belongs to. I'd say pick the one you're interested in more. You shouldn't be doing languages if you spend all your free time reading Shakespeare and doing your own translation of Chaucer and by the same token you shouldn't be doing English if you see yourself devoting a good deal of your free time watching foreign films with the subtitles covered up and trying to see if you can figure out what the hell they're saying.

Hmmmm.... that was all one paragraph. I probably made the right choice when I decided not to do English :biggrin:.
Reply 3
Yes, I'm thinking of Oxford, though really I think it's a cheeky thing to say, having a thread thin chance of actually getting in to either; sadly, I think joint honours might actually kill me, becasue I'm a lazy little thing really. Thanks for the advice though, it's definately worth investigating.
Reply 4
xazy
having a thread thin chance of actually getting in to either;


You never know until you give it a go!

Yes, i'm feeling cheesy today. It's all the revision...
Reply 5
At Cambridge, as part of the English tripos Part I, you can choose between a paper on foreign literature and critical theory. If I'd been more sensible about choosing A-levels, and done French, I might well have applied for MML (French and Russian, probably) in order to study the literature. However, I was put off French A-level by the banality of the material studied (transport, GM crops, etc...), even if I'd have become more proficient in the language. The reason I have enjoyed studying Latin is that the language work is always grounded in literature - short stories, poems, etc..., which are rewarding to translate and understand.

I found the foreign literature option at Cambridge very enticing (I don't think Oxford offer an alternative - their English course as a whole doesn't appear as good), and asked about it thoroughly on the Open Day. The colleges provide language tutors (I suppose they're members of the MML faculty, but are organised by the English lot) and support, to get you to A-level standard if you're not already, and then up to Flaubert-standard (French set texts I know include something by Flaubert [probably Madame B, might be Sentimental Education] and Racine tragedies, which my A-level friends say are beyond the standard of their course). It's also possible to take MML tripos papers, if you want - I think you can substitute one paper, or, if you're interested enough, just do them for fun to expand your knowledge of language/literature. It's also possible to do plenty of work on foreign literature in Part II (in translation) - I certainly don't wish to narrow myself to the English tradition. In the course of doing English, you're almost certainly going to have to do the French Symbolists when it comes around to Modernism.

I'm not interested in criticial theory, much of which seems spurious to me. Various ideas can be useful critical tools, but I think that a preoccupation with schools of criticism can overshadow the literature itself, which is really what I wish to study. Other philosophy, dealing with wider ideas (e.g. Nietzsche and Heidegger), is probably more useful reading than cultural theorists, as there is more to relate to literature as an artwork. I got the impression from the DoS on the Open day that the approach you take towards the English course is open, in terms of your interpretation of texts. You can go at everything as a passionate deconstructionist (and much good may it do you!), or a feminist, or a marxist, or a new historicist or a queer theorist, and engage in all these debates... or you could respond as a traditional liberal humanist such as myself... As far as I can tell, I won't be forced to write essays on Jacques Derrida et alii - and judging from the reading list I've been sent, there is an enormous amount of primary material to get through.

Whilst doing MML will offer more immediate scope (studying two traditions), as well as language skills, I certainly don't think that by studying English you are somehow isolating yourself from continental literature. You can if you want, and miss out on a great deal ("There is no English novelist as great as Tolstoy" - E M Forster). Indeed, given the option to do foreign language work, and incorporate other traditions, it seemed to me that by studying English I would get the chance to study 'literature as a whole' (I was told on the Open Day that such an interest would probably put me at an advantage). And there remains that fact that whatever course you choose, it doesn't ban you from studying other interests. I look forward to watching French films (preferably with Audrey Tautou in) with the subtitles blocked off (I've got to work on my language more first, which I hope to do over the summer), and whilst I hope to study for an English degree (providing I get my grades, including, perversely, an A in Further Maths...), I plan to make as much use of opportunities for learning foreign languages as possible. Likewise, if you do MML, you're not forbidden to read Henry James or T S Eliot. You're probably less likely to get the chance to write about them, though, than an English student would get to include Baudelaire in an essay.

Perhaps if I'd done French A-level, I might have been better off doing a languages degree, as I could then get employment as a teacher / interpreter, though I don't feel especially drawn to either vocation. However, it's dangerous to start partitioning off your knowledge, and I certainly don't think I've limited my options by choosing English - indeed, this seems to offer a more flexible approach. Whilst it's certainly true that
You shouldn't be doing languages if you spend all your free time reading Shakespeare and doing your own translation of Chaucer and by the same token you shouldn't be doing English if you see yourself devoting a good deal of your free time watching foreign films with the subtitles covered up
if you spend your free time reading as much foreign literature as English, then the choice is much more difficult.

That you consider which you're more intested in is certainly the best advice. Languages are likely to include and oral at interview, as well as asking literary questions about the books you've said you like... Either way, you stand a good chance if you like not just reading, but also thinking about, books. And I wouldn't drop either A-level language if I were you, as I've come round to the opinion that foreign languages are one of the most important things to know if you wish to study literature.
Reply 6
Werther
....


Hmmm
Werther
At Cambridge, as part of the English tripos Part I, you can choose between a paper on foreign literature and critical theory. If I'd been more sensible about choosing A-levels, and done French, I might well have applied for MML (French and Russian, probably) in order to study the literature. However, I was put off French A-level by the banality of the material studied (transport, GM crops, etc...), even if I'd have become more proficient in the language. The reason I have enjoyed studying Latin is that the language work is always grounded in literature - short stories, poems, etc..., which are rewarding to translate and understand.

I found the foreign literature option at Cambridge very enticing (I don't think Oxford offer an alternative - their English course as a whole doesn't appear as good), and asked about it thoroughly on the Open Day. The colleges provide language tutors (I suppose they're members of the MML faculty, but are organised by the English lot) and support, to get you to A-level standard if you're not already, and then up to Flaubert-standard (French set texts I know include something by Flaubert [probably Madame B, might be Sentimental Education] and Racine tragedies, which my A-level friends say are beyond the standard of their course). It's also possible to take MML tripos papers, if you want - I think you can substitute one paper, or, if you're interested enough, just do them for fun to expand your knowledge of language/literature. It's also possible to do plenty of work on foreign literature in Part II (in translation) - I certainly don't wish to narrow myself to the English tradition. In the course of doing English, you're almost certainly going to have to do the French Symbolists when it comes around to Modernism.

I'm not interested in criticial theory, much of which seems spurious to me. Various ideas can be useful critical tools, but I think that a preoccupation with schools of criticism can overshadow the literature itself, which is really what I wish to study. Other philosophy, dealing with wider ideas (e.g. Nietzsche and Heidegger), is probably more useful reading than cultural theorists, as there is more to relate to literature as an artwork. I got the impression from the DoS on the Open day that the approach you take towards the English course is open, in terms of your interpretation of texts. You can go at everything as a passionate deconstructionist (and much good may it do you!), or a feminist, or a marxist, or a new historicist or a queer theorist, and engage in all these debates... or you could respond as a traditional liberal humanist such as myself... As far as I can tell, I won't be forced to write essays on Jacques Derrida et alii - and judging from the reading list I've been sent, there is an enormous amount of primary material to get through.

Whilst doing MML will offer more immediate scope (studying two traditions), as well as language skills, I certainly don't think that by studying English you are somehow isolating yourself from continental literature. You can if you want, and miss out on a great deal ("There is no English novelist as great as Tolstoy" - E M Forster). Indeed, given the option to do foreign language work, and incorporate other traditions, it seemed to me that by studying English I would get the chance to study 'literature as a whole' (I was told on the Open Day that such an interest would probably put me at an advantage). And there remains that fact that whatever course you choose, it doesn't ban you from studying other interests. I look forward to watching French films (preferably with Audrey Tautou in) with the subtitles blocked off (I've got to work on my language more first, which I hope to do over the summer), and whilst I hope to study for an English degree (providing I get my grades, including, perversely, an A in Further Maths...), I plan to make as much use of opportunities for learning foreign languages as possible. Likewise, if you do MML, you're not forbidden to read Henry James or T S Eliot. You're probably less likely to get the chance to write about them, though, than an English student would get to include Baudelaire in an essay.

Perhaps if I'd done French A-level, I might have been better off doing a languages degree, as I could then get employment as a teacher / interpreter, though I don't feel especially drawn to either vocation. However, it's dangerous to start partitioning off your knowledge, and I certainly don't think I've limited my options by choosing English - indeed, this seems to offer a more flexible approach. Whilst it's certainly true that
if you spend your free time reading as much foreign literature as English, then the choice is much more difficult.

That you consider which you're more intested in is certainly the best advice. Languages are likely to include and oral at interview, as well as asking literary questions about the books you've said you like... Either way, you stand a good chance if you like not just reading, but also thinking about, books. And I wouldn't drop either A-level language if I were you, as I've come round to the opinion that foreign languages are one of the most important things to know if you wish to study literature.


No. It's the other way round, you see.
Reply 8
if you love ur foreign languages, but love english as well....why not try for a joint honours at oxford? u can always drop one subject after the first year if the workload gets too much/you don't like one subject, and if not you get the best of both worlds. alternatively do a language honours at camb (where u would have to do 2 languages) and take the literature option in it