What do you think a feminist is? Watch

dyslexicvegie
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Hello there people!

I have just watched Free Speech on BBC3 and a successful British Female Entrepreneur insisted she was not a feminist but was all for women's rights.

Also recent Threads, I have noticed in the relationship section, have been discussing the suitability of women who identify as feminists for marriage.(though that is not the purpose of this thread)

I know many people who identify as feminists have different ideas about how to act on it ( no more page 3 Vs women should have that job opportunity etc)

For me Feminism means, I believe in equal rights and opportunities for men and women in all things. That doesn't seem so controversial. But identifying as a feminist seems to be.

So that got me thinking, is feminism generally regarded differently to how I would describe it?


So what does feminism mean to you? Has feminism become a dirty word? Does it seem aggressive or sexist? Has feminism lost the plot? Where are all the male feminists?



Plz no hate.
I am interested in your thoughts. Thank you xx
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username521617
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People seem to have different ideas, including feminists themselves. The dictionary definition conforms to your view. However, what a movement professes to be and what it actually is can be two different things indeed.

As I see it, feminism is a broad political movement that encompasses a number of different theories and views, most of which focus on women and their roles and experiences in society. Sometimes "feminists" are very reasonable and raise very important issues, and other times they are immensely hypocritical and sexist. As it stands, 'traditional' feminism and 'radical' feminism are becoming increasingly intertwined these days under the third wave. A fundamental flaw with feminism is that it is inherently gynocentric. A movement professing to be for gender equality should focus on the experiences of both and not dwell too heavily on one of them. That is how we create double standards and exaggerated, lopsided narratives on social, political and economic phenomena.

I personally do not identify with the movement, but, in my opinion, calling me a feminist simply for believing in the equal rights and fair treatment of women would be like calling somebody an MRA because they also believe in the equal rights and fair treatment of men.
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HuggleyDuck
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Feminism is the movement to secure political, economical and social equality of the sexes. I am a feminist. I think that sometimes people misinterpret the message of feminism and their actions generally discredit feminism.
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MarriageSucks
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The dictionary definition of a feminism is "advocating social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men."

However, men and women are biologically different, so equality is impossible.

Men and women have equal rights in the West, so modern feminism fights for things like reducing or stopping:

- the "wage gap" (men earn more than women)
- the "glass ceiling"
- "rape culture"
- sexual harassment of women
- violence towards women

Modern feminism also wants to remove judgement of promiscuous women, and encourages women into education and careers rather than being traditional housewives who rely on a breadwinning man.

Feminists also seem to believe that men are "privileged" and create a "Patriarchy" that "oppresses" women.

This is symptomatic of the nasty undercurrent of misandry within feminism, in which men are to blame for all the problems of the world while women are always innocent victims.

I disagree with what modern feminists are fighting for.

There is strong evidence that the "wage gap" is primarily due to differences between men and women: men benefit more from gaining wealth and status, and are more prone to risk-taking and obsessive focus.

There is no "rape culture" in the West. The idea that we should "teach boys not to rape" is absolutely ridiculous: we already know not to rape and there is complete condemnation of rape in society. However, feminists need to keep the gravy train coming, so must pretend that men are all horrible rapists-in-waiting so they keep getting lots of funding even though it isn't necessary.

"Sexual harassment" is because women are far more reproductively valuable than men. Complaining that they have to reject lots of thirsty men is like a millionaire complaining that he has to reject lots of homeless people pestering him for money. Sure it's annoying, but the millionaire is far more privileged than the homeless people. No amount of feminism is going to stop women receiving sexual attention.

We should fight for the end of violence towards anyone, not just end violence towards women.

Modern feminists in the West are the most privileged, spoilt, entitled group of women to ever live, yet think they are somehow "oppressed" and deserve special treatment and benefits - while ignoring the actual oppression of women in other parts of the world, because it's not politically correct to criticise other races or religions.

Some of them want to ban page three, stop fat-shaming (only for women not men), stop slut-shaming, shame normal male behaviours, and enforce quotas for women in business and politics.

Modern feminism can only exist while the state forces a large transfer of wealth from men to women, while men with guns keep the streets safe and force men to pay up.

Unfortunately for them, men are getting fed up of being considered "privileged oppressors" who should "man up" and comply with women's wishes, regardless of what women offer the men. There are also serious demographic consequences to the majority of women avoiding marriage and children while they are younger, and I think more traditional cultures will return because they are the ones having children.

Feminism was funded by the richest, most powerful males, because it makes them richer (women get careers > women have more disposable income > women spend more money) and more powerful (women are easily manipulated into voting for more government).

Tldr: equality of opportunity for everyone regardless of gender, race, sexuality, age = egalitarianism = good

Modern feminism = privileged women who claim to be oppressed and demonising men while creating a totalitarian state = bad


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jazjaz
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(Original post by HuggleyDuck)
Feminism is the movement to secure political, economical and social equality of the sexes. I am a feminist. I think that sometimes people misinterpret the message of feminism and their actions generally discredit feminism.
Just food for thought here... But how can you bring about 'political, economical and social equality of the sexes' by concentrating solely on the issues of one gender only?
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Spetznaaz
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In answer the the thread title, imo a feminist is an easily influenced / naive person usually of low intelligence who lacks the ability of critical thinking.
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futbol
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A woman in need of a husband.
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ModYom
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Feminism = Attractive women wanting even more power
= Ugly women resenting men
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kahill18
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(Original post by Spetznaaz)
In answer the the thread title, imo a feminist is an easily influenced / naive person usually of low intelligence who lacks the ability of critical thinking.
I'm sorry but one of the leading faces of the feminist cause today is Emma Watson and she certainly isn't of 'low intelligence', shes probably considerably smarter than you. But in answer to the thread, i completely agree, a feminist is someone who want equality in all aspects between the sexes, it is not about women getting more or better rights than men. and in response to someone saying why focus on just the one gender, its simple, 1) we are not, and i would urge anyone to watch Emma Watson's speech on gender equality and her heforshe campaign as this embodies all that feminism and a feminist is 2) to create equality between the sexes we need to raise the role of women to gain more respect as individuals and in the workplace, if you focused on making men equal to women you would have to lower their social access which doesn't make much sense to do does it
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Becca.H96
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I'm just going to put these links to emma watsons speeches on here as clearly all you un-enlightened people have no idea what feminism is.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNi9Ypc0cg8
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-iFl4qhBsE

Please educate yourselves before making up your ideas based on the (incorrect) negative connotations that have been placed on feminism. By saying you think feminists are wrong you're basicaly saying you're sexist as you're saying you don't think women should have equal rights to men.
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kahill18
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Additionally, feminism is not about hating men, I am a feminist and i am in a long term relationship right now, and i do hope to get married and have children one day, but i also want my husband to get valued as a father as i am valued as a mother, so an increase in paternity leave, and i would also want my job secured for when i am back from maternity leave so that having a child does not ruin my career prospects either.
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lucaf
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Well get all my information from the internet so from what I gather a feminist is some sort of vampire-like creature, a hideous scaly beast with long talons and worms for hair. They hunt in the night borne up on the wings of a bat amidst a shroud of flies.

I believe the leading theory is that they were bred by the Mossad.
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Spetznaaz
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(Original post by kahill18)
I'm sorry but one of the leading faces of the feminist cause today is Emma Watson and she certainly isn't of 'low intelligence', shes probably considerably smarter than you. But in answer to the thread, i completely agree, a feminist is someone who want equality in all aspects between the sexes, it is not about women getting more or better rights than men. and in response to someone saying why focus on just the one gender, its simple, 1) we are not, and i would urge anyone to watch Emma Watson's speech on gender equality and her heforshe campaign as this embodies all that feminism and a feminist is 2) to create equality between the sexes we need to raise the role of women to gain more respect as individuals and in the workplace, if you focused on making men equal to women you would have to lower their social access which doesn't make much sense to do does it
Oh lawd.

You should really learn to paragraph, reading that hurt my head.

Just as an example - Reasonable person presented with statistic which clearly does not sound right "1 in 3 women raped".

Feminist presented with said statistic.

Reasonable response: How did they come up with this statistic? What was being asked? What was considered rape? etc. Of course you find out they considered any unwanted sexual attention as rape (IIRC).

Feminist response: "omg we live in a rape culture, men are evil, women are victims blah blah bull****"

That's just one random example mind.
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Ebony19
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(Original post by MarriageSucks)
I have serious issues AMA
Did you grow up in a broken home or something?
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Wade-
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(Original post by HuggleyDuck)
Feminism is the movement to secure political, economical and social equality of the sexes. I am a feminist. I think that sometimes people misinterpret the message of feminism and their actions generally discredit feminism.
No it isn't. It's a movement to extend the rights of women


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TurboCretin
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I have no formal expertise on the issue, but these are my thoughts.

A fundamental issue with feminism, I think, is that there is no single authority on what it constitutes. We have dictionary definitions of what the term means, but those are intended to do nothing more than reflect, at the highest level of generality, the beliefs of people who describe themselves as such. As a result of the movement's democratic nature, it has fragmented - telling someone that you are a feminist allows them to assume very little about what you stand for. This is the really fundamental problem which the thread title addresses, and this is reflected in more concrete terms in a number of ways.

I think that feminism's public image has suffered from it becoming an occupation and an industry. Being a feminist academic, for example, became a thing, and people began publishing books and articles on high feminist theory. At that point, many of the best platforms for spreading the feminist message began to be found among the ivory towers and ordinary people lost patience with the academic concerns of this vocal minority. There's an additional vocal minority group, as there is in any large movement (generally known as "fringe crazies") who latch on to the ideas and twist them to suit their own motives. It is a sad fact of life that the people with the most extreme positions in a given movement happen to expend an inordinate amount of energy on pushing their agenda compared to the vast bulk of moderates. It's widely acknowledged that this group has done a fair amount of damage to feminism's PR.

A third issue, and one which I think is closer to the mainstream, is the slant which feminist charities have on the idea of gender equality. You read things in mission statements about achieving gender equality, yet the problems which these charities focus upon are, in every case I've seen, predominantly if not exclusively female-centric. Often the slant is phrased explicitly in mission statements, in terms such as 'achieving equality for women'. That makes absolutely no sense, as a phrase. Gender equality is not a see-saw. It concerns a vast array of complex issues such as pay, workplace composition, parental rights, divorce laws, body image, sexual crimes and so on. Furthermore, within many of these areas men and women are both disadvantaged in qualitatively different ways, so thinking about gender equality from a 'see-saw' point of view is fundamentally flawed.

Thinking about the issues in this 'quantitative' rather than qualitative manner also legitimises sweeping men's problems under the carpet, because they are not viewed as significant in comparison with those experienced by women. I am not arguing that women don't have the worse deal, but that fact does not mean that male-specific issues are insignificant. Boys and men are achieving less highly in school, are graduating university in fewer numbers, are worse off financially in young professional life than women, die younger, are prejudiced against in the family courts, and, in delicious irony, are very often told to be quiet and man up when they speak about these problems. As we all know, the suicide rate for men is three and a half times that of women. This doesn't strike me as an insignificant issue.

To answer your question, the term 'feminism' has become fairly meaningless to me. I am an avid supporter of gender equality. I don't think that the need for gender equality is a contentious issue. I do feel uncomfortable, though, associating myself with a movement of which nobody really has the reins. It just results in assumptions, crossed wires and bickering. I would much rather engage with people on the substantive issues.
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kieranfitchett
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Someone who believes that there is inequality between men and women, and also believes that this is not a natural occurence and can be corrected. simple.
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kahill18
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(Original post by Spetznaaz)
Oh lawd.

You should really learn to paragraph, reading that hurt my head.

Just as an example - Reasonable person presented with statistic which clearly does not sound right "1 in 3 women raped".

Feminist presented with said statistic.

Reasonable response: How did they come up with this statistic? What was being asked? What was considered rape? etc. Of course you find out they considered any unwanted sexual attention as rape (IIRC).

Feminist response: "omg we live in a rape culture, men are evil, women are victims blah blah bull****"

That's just one random example mind.
and your stupidity hurts mine! and for the record a sentence is not a parapgraph so maybe you should learn how to paragraph.
Also, when i see that statistic i do not think all men are evil and i do not think we live in a rape culture, however, rape is still an issue and pretending like it isn't is just stupid.
Please stop making generalisations about things please, just like in everything there are individuals with their own thoughts and beliefs so yes some may think this however, in my experience many more do not.
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Spetznaaz
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(Original post by kahill18)
and your stupidity hurts mine! and for the record a sentence is not a parapgraph so maybe you should learn how to paragraph.
Also, when i see that statistic i do not think all men are evil and i do not think we live in a rape culture, however, rape is still an issue and pretending like it isn't is just stupid.
Please stop making generalisations about things please, just like in everything there are individuals with their own thoughts and beliefs so yes some may think this however, in my experience many more do not.
I type that way because it's easier to read, much easier than your wall of text. Anyway, i'm done.
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TurboCretin
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(Original post by kahill18)
I'm sorry but one of the leading faces of the feminist cause today is Emma Watson and she certainly isn't of 'low intelligence', shes probably considerably smarter than you. But in answer to the thread, i completely agree, a feminist is someone who want equality in all aspects between the sexes, it is not about women getting more or better rights than men. and in response to someone saying why focus on just the one gender, its simple, 1) we are not, and i would urge anyone to watch Emma Watson's speech on gender equality and her heforshe campaign as this embodies all that feminism and a feminist is 2) to create equality between the sexes we need to raise the role of women to gain more respect as individuals and in the workplace, if you focused on making men equal to women you would have to lower their social access which doesn't make much sense to do does it
Have you actually read the HeForShe mission statement? The campaign is specifically about women's rights, and getting men on board with them. If that is what feminism is all about, then feminism is not strictly an equality movement.

Watson mentioned in her speech (to her credit) that men are often victims of gender inequality as well as women, but in the context of the campaign that was nothing more than paying lip service.

With respect to your point (2), I think you have an oversimplified view of gender equality. Read the fourth and fifth paragraphs (beginning with 'a third issue') of my post above - that deals with this point.
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