Would the Tories block a minority Labour government? Watch

MagicNMedicine
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32045419

The SNP would block a minority Conservative government by voting down its Queen's Speech if it held the post-election balance of power, its former leader Alex Salmond has said.
Mr Salmond said the move could bring down the government if Labour joined in, with David Cameron "locked out".
The Conservatives accused him of "trying to sabotage the democratic will of the British people".
So we see that if the Conservatives are the largest party but don't have enough seats for an overall majority, the SNP are now threatening to vote down the Queen's Speech to block them trying to form a government.

The Conservatives have declared this act sabotage against the democratic will of the British people.

Could the Conservatives be trusted not to sabotage the democratic will of the British people if Labour are the largest party? Will they promise to support Ed Miliband's Queen's Speech to enable Labour to form a government and at least allow the UK to have a chance of stable government rather than forcing the country in to deadlock?
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Aj12
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Salmond really is doing wonders for Labour right now. I don't see why they would vote against it. Would that not just trigger another general election straight after? One so soon would do very little to change seat numbers.
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Quady
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32045419



So we see that if the Conservatives are the largest party but don't have enough seats for an overall majority, the SNP are now threatening to vote down the Queen's Speech to block them trying to form a government.

The Conservatives have declared this act sabotage against the democratic will of the British people.

Could the Conservatives be trusted not to sabotage the democratic will of the British people if Labour are the largest party? Will they promise to support Ed Miliband's Queen's Speech to enable Labour to form a government and at least allow the UK to have a chance of stable government rather than forcing the country in to deadlock?
As long as Labour got enough votes elsewhere then the Tories couldn't take them down.

The real question is whether Labour would vote against Tories to take them down, if SNP voted against.
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MagicNMedicine
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(Original post by Quady)
As long as Labour got enough votes elsewhere then the Tories couldn't take them down.

The real question is whether Labour would vote against Tories to take them down, if SNP voted against.
There could be some tactics involved in that situation.

Labour wouldn't want the expense of fighting an election straight away. Better to leave Cameron in a difficult position and go on the attack after 18 months to two years with a no confidence argument, when Labour are well ahead in the polls mid-term.

The complicating factor is the EU referendum. If Cameron campaigns on an "in" ticket, which he probably will, Labour will be onside with him during that and it will limit the extent of partisan politics. Lets be honest Cameron campaigning on an "in" ticket will send the Tory party in to civil war and Labour can exploit that when it's finished by going on the attack. If Cameron campaigns on an "out" ticket then Labour might up the "no confidence" ante earlier and exploit disillusionment with the government as being "the nasty right wingers say out of the EU, progressive people say in the EU, which do you choose....?"
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Quady
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
There could be some tactics involved in that situation.

Labour wouldn't want the expense of fighting an election straight away. Better to leave Cameron in a difficult position and go on the attack after 18 months to two years with a no confidence argument, when Labour are well ahead in the polls mid-term.

The complicating factor is the EU referendum. If Cameron campaigns on an "in" ticket, which he probably will, Labour will be onside with him during that and it will limit the extent of partisan politics. Lets be honest Cameron campaigning on an "in" ticket will send the Tory party in to civil war and Labour can exploit that when it's finished by going on the attack. If Cameron campaigns on an "out" ticket then Labour might up the "no confidence" ante earlier and exploit disillusionment with the government as being "the nasty right wingers say out of the EU, progressive people say in the EU, which do you choose....?"
Well that is very true, no confidence is trickier now with the 55% requirement.
Will ahve to see what actually happens in May 8th really.
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young_guns
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(Original post by Quady)
Well that is very true, no confidence is trickier now with the 55% requirement.
Will ahve to see what actually happens in May 8th really.
There is no such 55% requirement. A simple majority can repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

If Labour + SNP = > 325, then they will be sitting on the Treasury benches, it's just that simple.
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young_guns
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
There could be some tactics involved in that situation
If Labour + SNP = > 325, then they will be sitting on the Treasury benches, it's just that simple.

If a Prime Minister cannot command the confidence of the house, and has no real basis to be able to claim to, the Queen will not commission them to form a government.

The ordinary constitutional mechanics of this country is that the Queen will then go to the leader of the next largest party to see if they are able to command a majority. If they can, then they will be commissioned to form government.

All these prognostications about the FTPA merely demonstrates a fundamental ignorance of the British constitution
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Ebony19
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Shh don't give them ideas :teehee:
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young_guns
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(Original post by Quady)
The real question is whether Labour would vote against Tories to take them down, if SNP voted against.
This is all nonsense.

You don't have to wait until the Queen's speech to bring down the Tories, the Queen will not commission a government that cannot survive a confidence motion if there is a notional grouping in the house of commons that can (i.e. Labour with SNP support)
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young_guns
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(Original post by Ebony19)
Shh don't give them ideas :teehee:
The Tories are unable to block a minority Labour government if Labour + SNP = > 325
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Ebony19
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(Original post by young_guns)
The Tories are unable to block a minority Labour government if Labour + SNP = > 325
Damn straight
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Quady
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(Original post by young_guns)
There is no such 55% requirement. A simple majority can repeal the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

If Labour + SNP = > 325, then they will be sitting on the Treasury benches, it's just that simple.
Well thats true, but it does take time.

Yup indeedy. The televised debates should be interesting.
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Quady
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(Original post by young_guns)
This is all nonsense.

You don't have to wait until the Queen's speech to bring down the Tories, the Queen will not commission a government that cannot survive a confidence motion if there is a notional grouping in the house of commons that can (i.e. Labour with SNP support)
The Queen has commissioned a minority Government before without confidence/supply in place.
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young_guns
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(Original post by Quady)
The Queen has commissioned a minority Government before without confidence/supply in place.
Never when there was an alternative bloc in the house that could command a majority.

The idea that the Tories could somehow undemocratically hold onto power, even when they couldn't command a majority or win a confidence vote, is I suppose a sign of just how desperate the Tories have become to cling onto the hope of remaining in office
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young_guns
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(Original post by Quady)
Well thats true, but it does take time.
Why does it take time? If Miliband says to Buck House "I can command a majority, the SNP has given me their support" the Queen cannot do anything other than commission him. A government has no right to hold onto power when another prospective one can command a majority, otherwise why doesn't this happen every time there's a change of power?

The debates, such as they are (given the Prime Minister is weak and unable to face the scrutiny of a head-to-head debate) will indeed be interesting. It will be the demolition of the image of Miliband the right-wing papers have so desperately tried to cultivate.

Of course, having built up this image in the electorate's mind, their own credbility will be shot when people see Ed Miliband isn't that bad at all
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ChaoticButterfly
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I don't really have a problem with that and it isn't anymore undemocratic than first past the post generally is.

People who vote either labour or SNP probably don't want the Tories in power. If there are more combined MPs from labour and SNP than Tories then I would say that is a reflection that more people don't want a Tory government than do. Even though the Tories have more MPs than any other party. It depends what unit you measure democratic representation by.

I have nothing against different parties forming alliances over common ground. That is how I think democracy should work anyway. I'd also be fine with Conservatives and UKIP doing the same (even though I dislike both parties).
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SausageMan
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(Original post by Aj12)
Salmond really is doing wonders for Labour right now. I don't see why they would vote against it. Would that not just trigger another general election straight after? One so soon would do very little to change seat numbers.
I wouldn't think so. As we have the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/th...fixed-election
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Aj12
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(Original post by SausageMan)
I wouldn't think so. As we have the Fixed Term Parliament Act.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/th...fixed-election
Your blog states the Fixed Term Parliament Act is unlikely to prevent a government falling Whilst it may be wrong in the case of the previous government I find it really hard to believe that a minority Labour government could maintain support to last a whole term.
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